Recorded Events
Community as Strategy: Leadership Beyond the Institution
Date: August 13, 2025
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00:00:05.800 –> 00:00:16.110
Kamy Akhavan: Well, hello, and welcome to the Leading Forward webinar series. Today, we’re having the third and the final in our series.00:00:17.080 –> 00:00:24.280
Kamy Akhavan: And our topic for today is Community as Strategy, Leadership Beyond the Institution.00:00:24.540 –> 00:00:32.670
Kamy Akhavan: Today’s discussion will feature an alum of the USC Distinguished Leaders Program by the name of Charles Moody.00:00:32.880 –> 00:00:36.269
Kamy Akhavan: Dr. Moody is a pastor in Austin, Texas.00:00:36.410 –> 00:00:40.199
Kamy Akhavan: and the founder and CEO of the Community Coalition for Health.00:00:40.330 –> 00:00:45.580
Kamy Akhavan: And he’s a pastor and CEO at The Rock, which is ATX in Austin.00:00:45.930 –> 00:00:59.950
Kamy Akhavan: I’m also joined today by Dr. Sylvia Russo, who is not only a professor emeritus at the University of Southern California, but she was also a former principal at Santa Monica High School, and a former superintendent00:00:59.970 –> 00:01:10.240
Kamy Akhavan: of the Santa Monica Malibu Unified School District. Both of these folks have much longer biographies than I have shared with you now, and they will do00:01:10.300 –> 00:01:16.779
Kamy Akhavan: More to suss out what it is that they have achieved, so that you can benefit from their insights.00:01:16.900 –> 00:01:30.799
Kamy Akhavan: Before we get into the conversation, I wanted to mention two things. One is, if you have questions, please put them in the Q&A, and we’ll do our best to answer as many of the questions as we can possibly get to within our 45 minutes of time together.00:01:31.200 –> 00:01:33.360
Kamy Akhavan: And number 2…00:01:34.120 –> 00:01:52.130
Kamy Akhavan: I wanted to share with you what the Distinguished Leaders Program is. It is intended for senior executives who are looking for the next act. And the next act, not just for how to make money, but how to make social impact, how to change the world in a way that they are just so passionate about.00:01:52.280 –> 00:01:59.149
Kamy Akhavan: It is an opportunity to go back to school and really reflect on what you want the next chapter of your life to be about.00:01:59.700 –> 00:02:07.259
Kamy Akhavan: So the program brings together mentors and people from various fields, NGOs, politics.00:02:07.410 –> 00:02:19.279
Kamy Akhavan: Screenwriting, you name it, in order to help people think through what that next phase of their life might look like, and then to help them define and refine a project, and then amplify that project00:02:19.380 –> 00:02:31.399
Kamy Akhavan: impact, build out a development plan, and really put some weight to it, so that it’s clear what that next step is going to be, and you take… have taken a big step towards it. That’s the idea of it.00:02:31.880 –> 00:02:41.680
Kamy Akhavan: So that said, for today, we’re really talking about community and leadership beyond the institution, and I wanted to ask, first,00:02:41.930 –> 00:02:57.190
Kamy Akhavan: Dr. Charles Moody, who I’ll call Charles, and Dr. Sylvia Russo to introduce themselves and explain for you, Charles, why you joined the Distinguished Leaders Program, and then for you, Sylvia, what you hope to explore today.00:02:57.340 –> 00:02:58.240
Kamy Akhavan: Charles.00:02:58.510 –> 00:03:01.010
Charles Moody: Sure, thank you, thank you, Kami.00:03:01.510 –> 00:03:06.210
Charles Moody: Charles Moody, and I… you know, when I… when I talk about myself,00:03:07.500 –> 00:03:17.960
Charles Moody: I really come on… come online as a servant, you know? You just… you’re trying to help people, you’re trying to help processes, trying to facilitate change, …00:03:18.330 –> 00:03:24.940
Charles Moody: Trying to be a part of something that’s impacting the lives of people. So, …00:03:25.000 –> 00:03:40.099
Charles Moody: that’s one of the reasons why I actually looked at the Distinguished Leadership Program, because, you know, I’ve been a pastor, you know, we’ve done some things there, done the nonprofit, done some partnerships there, but my question was.00:03:40.100 –> 00:03:59.429
Charles Moody: not just what next, but, can I think bigger, can I think more globally, and can I engage other people? The program, I loved it because it allowed me to interact with people from different sectors, different industry sectors, and learn about leadership.00:03:59.640 –> 00:04:15.469
Charles Moody: And their decision-making from their vantage point, and then, I really enjoy the fact that now we come together to solve big problems, together, and we use, some community strategies, some faith strategies, some.00:04:15.470 –> 00:04:38.700
Charles Moody: some technology, some AI, and all these things, and we all come to the table and bring our unique talents and abilities. So it’s afforded me the ability to connect with people, to learn about other industry sectors, and to see how that intersection is a very, very powerful place. So, great… I love the program.00:04:38.700 –> 00:04:43.299
Charles Moody: And really, you know, the program is still going on, because we’re still working together on projects.00:04:44.220 –> 00:04:54.010
Kamy Akhavan: I love the way that you framed that, about it’s a real amplification tool for the things that were in your heart, and you sort of built a network and a team, and sort of re-conceived00:04:54.130 –> 00:05:13.639
Kamy Akhavan: this idea that you had, and sort of expanded it, so I love the way you framed that. Thank you for that. Now, Sylvia, you did not participate in the Distinguished Leaders program, however, you are very much a distinguished leader yourself, and I was curious, you are a highly sought-after speaker, you’ve been on the TED stage, you’ve been on… on…00:05:13.800 –> 00:05:26.679
Kamy Akhavan: in many places that many other leaders wish they could speak at. But you’re here with us today, and so I was curious to find out from you, like, what do you really hope to lead people with today? Why are you here with us today?00:05:28.340 –> 00:05:36.630
Sylvia Rousseau: As someone who’s spent the last, pardon me, 50 years of my life in education, institution.00:05:36.790 –> 00:05:40.469
Sylvia Rousseau: I hope that we can amplify or clarify.00:05:40.760 –> 00:05:45.380
Sylvia Rousseau: The relationship between institutions and the community.00:05:45.540 –> 00:05:50.170
Sylvia Rousseau: They coexist. That’s inevitable, and it’s not a bad thing.00:05:50.270 –> 00:05:56.449
Sylvia Rousseau: But the relationship that exists between institutions and the community becomes very important.00:05:56.520 –> 00:06:09.829
Sylvia Rousseau: And what role do leaders play in shaping those relationships so that the community is reflected in our institutions, and that our institutions acknowledge00:06:09.830 –> 00:06:24.370
Sylvia Rousseau: The social capital, the cultural and assets, many assets that communities bring as a way to prevent institutions from stagnating and losing their purpose.00:06:25.450 –> 00:06:33.319
Kamy Akhavan: I appreciate you saying that, because it sounds like when an institution and a community are in sync.00:06:33.450 –> 00:06:47.109
Kamy Akhavan: both benefits, and if they are not in sync, neither benefits. And so there has to be some way to make them work together. But we’re gonna explore that very topic to figure out how do you do that? How do you…00:06:47.200 –> 00:06:57.299
Kamy Akhavan: do that. And my first question, and I’ll start with you, Charles, if it’s alright, which is that, obviously, you both worked in powerful institutions and schools and churches, and you’ve…00:06:58.070 –> 00:07:06.469
Kamy Akhavan: worked or are working on building impact outside of those structures so that it can benefit community. And so.00:07:06.910 –> 00:07:20.220
Kamy Akhavan: I wanted to understand, you know, what changes when you are outside of the formal structure? You don’t have the title anymore, you are a member of the community. How do things change, and what stays the same?00:07:21.480 –> 00:07:24.210
Charles Moody: I think… well, first of all, if you are…00:07:24.270 –> 00:07:39.979
Charles Moody: when you’re in an institution, a church, a school, a university, the first thing you gotta realize is that you… you were supposed to be a part of the community. And we have to make sure that those doors and those…00:07:39.980 –> 00:07:56.830
Charles Moody: those barriers are more fluid so that there’s a space where there’s interaction between the two. There has to be this yin and yang and this relationship that’s built, because, as Dr. Russo said, you can become stagnated.00:07:56.900 –> 00:08:06.290
Charles Moody: Or, you can become, … you can become alienated as an institution, or you can alienate the community, which is, which is,00:08:06.360 –> 00:08:16.609
Charles Moody: a really bad thing. So, as leaders, what I’ve learned is that, the community itself is a living, growing, breathing organism.00:08:16.610 –> 00:08:40.280
Charles Moody: You know, and… but your institution has to also be a living, growing organizational entity, and they have to interact, not just with people, but with processes, and even with language. It’s not just a matter of just opening up a door and having an advisory board, you know, committee. The language has to be the same.00:08:40.289 –> 00:08:43.499
Charles Moody: The goals have to be shared.00:08:43.659 –> 00:09:01.029
Charles Moody: the power structure has to be shared and interchanged, and there has to be a give and take. The entity has to give back to the community and provide some benefits to the community, and the community then will entail bring benefits to the entity.00:09:02.640 –> 00:09:07.390
Kamy Akhavan: I appreciate the give and the take. It reminds me, at USC,00:09:07.390 –> 00:09:28.719
Kamy Akhavan: some people will talk about the university as the ivory tower, but USC very much wants to be part of the community, so we’ve used a phrase called the academy in the public square. And if we’re not in the public square, what are we doing? And the whole idea is that you mentioned the give and take. How can we solve community problems using the incredible talent that exists within a university?00:09:28.720 –> 00:09:36.989
Kamy Akhavan: And what are those problems? We wouldn’t know. We need the community to identify opportunities for us to engage so that we can go and00:09:36.990 –> 00:09:56.450
Kamy Akhavan: And help solve these things. Everything from, you know, meal delivery services for homeless in the community, to what do we do with vacant homes and houses that exist in our area, to how do we reduce the amount of plastics that are going to be used for upcoming Olympic Games, as an example. These are real examples we’ve done.00:09:56.450 –> 00:10:08.730
Kamy Akhavan: But Sylvia, you’ve got a ton of experience within the institutions and then beyond, and so my same question for you. What changes when you step outside the institution, and what stays the same?00:10:10.270 –> 00:10:13.790
Sylvia Rousseau: I’m not sure that they’re so distinctly different.00:10:15.130 –> 00:10:26.069
Sylvia Rousseau: And for me, a few years ago, I was leading a group of doctoral students in their dissertation. They were going to become school administrators.00:10:26.090 –> 00:10:38.099
Sylvia Rousseau: And they were interested in this very question of what… in what ways can a community impact or relate to schools in ways that benefit both?00:10:38.340 –> 00:10:48.420
Sylvia Rousseau: And there happened to be a school that we were working with at the time, so I invited them. There was a group of parents in this particular school.00:10:48.420 –> 00:10:58.369
Sylvia Rousseau: Who, were not happy with the resources and the way the district had, worked with that school and brought benefits to it.00:10:58.710 –> 00:11:03.890
Sylvia Rousseau: So they joined together with teachers who also lived in that community.00:11:10.140 –> 00:11:12.539
Sylvia Rousseau: Who also lived in that community.00:11:13.260 –> 00:11:15.230
Sylvia Rousseau: And form the board.00:11:15.510 –> 00:11:20.769
Sylvia Rousseau: And joined with the local civil rights, community, Urban League.00:11:20.890 –> 00:11:26.740
Sylvia Rousseau: And decided that they were going to petition the district to do better with their children.00:11:26.880 –> 00:11:43.600
Sylvia Rousseau: My students attended those meetings, took notes, they interviewed parents in the community, they went to events in the community. They wanted to make sure they understood the flavor and the community itself. They shopped at places, etc.00:11:43.600 –> 00:11:52.120
Sylvia Rousseau: It became a very interesting, insight into how schools interface or do not interface with the community.00:11:52.720 –> 00:11:59.119
Sylvia Rousseau: A term that came out of those was one that I have adopted for myself.00:11:59.280 –> 00:12:01.720
Sylvia Rousseau: The critical bridge person.00:12:01.890 –> 00:12:15.230
Sylvia Rousseau: And I think that that’s what I’ve tried to be. Inside the institution, I bring… it was my desire to bring my community with me, not to leave it at the door.00:12:15.230 –> 00:12:26.469
Sylvia Rousseau: But to bring the assets and the cultural attributes and the many ways of being in my community to influence the institution.00:12:27.060 –> 00:12:34.800
Sylvia Rousseau: And so… But then, when I exited, and that meant, when I exited.00:12:35.340 –> 00:12:41.710
Sylvia Rousseau: That role didn’t change. I’m still a critical bridge person who consults with the district.00:12:41.720 –> 00:12:57.239
Sylvia Rousseau: But it meant I had to be an authentic member of the community to really be that representation. So I had to be neighbors with my community. I had to shop the places where my community shops. I had to, …00:12:57.290 –> 00:13:14.579
Sylvia Rousseau: support businesses in my community to sustain it economically. I had to be… interview elders in the community, of which I am now up here, to understand the history of those communities, and the richness in those communities, so that00:13:14.580 –> 00:13:18.339
Sylvia Rousseau: I… when I was in an institution, I brought that with me.00:13:18.340 –> 00:13:25.290
Sylvia Rousseau: And I’m broadening it now, in a few ways. One, I’m writing.00:13:25.350 –> 00:13:34.569
Sylvia Rousseau: I believe that a gift to my children and grandchildren and others is to understand who they are and how they became who they are.00:13:34.570 –> 00:13:45.549
Sylvia Rousseau: John Henry Clark says, we can’t really understand who we are unless we understand who we were. So I want my children to have that richness.00:13:45.550 –> 00:14:05.100
Sylvia Rousseau: all the way back to Africa, of who they are, to dispel the myths that have been perpetrated, so that when they enter spaces where they work, institutions they work, they will bring that with them. I do think I worship with the people in my community.00:14:05.200 –> 00:14:13.889
Sylvia Rousseau: Because that gathering is a place where people express their hopes and dreams, and heal from their hurts and from disappointments.00:14:13.940 –> 00:14:29.479
Sylvia Rousseau: And they come together in a commitment to lift one another up, and to have hope. So I have to be an authentic member of the community in order to influence the institutions that surround us.00:14:30.310 –> 00:14:43.230
Kamy Akhavan: What you said is stirring so many thoughts, and I really value how you framed it, because the pronouns change, and by that I mean, when we talk about community, we can talk about it as00:14:43.230 –> 00:15:02.520
Kamy Akhavan: as you, when we talk about others, or we can talk about it as we, as if we are part of this, we are all together in this. And I wonder, for you, Sylvia, if that means that by being part of the community, that is how you establish trust, and you earn their trust because they know you…00:15:02.790 –> 00:15:13.640
Kamy Akhavan: you are part of the we, do you know what I mean? Like, do you think that that’s… is it essential? Like, how do you build that trust within community, other than through just active engagement within it?00:15:13.640 –> 00:15:32.279
Sylvia Rousseau: Absolutely. So, if I could just add… by the way, in that resume or synopsis you had in my career, I spent a lot of years in Los Angeles Unified School District as an assistant superintendent and a superintendent for a local district. And the reason I mention that, so that when I go to a board meeting.00:15:32.340 –> 00:15:42.409
Sylvia Rousseau: and hold that institution accountable for the data that I’m looking at in the community where I serve, and where it is obligated to serve.00:15:42.500 –> 00:15:52.839
Sylvia Rousseau: And people see me go forward in their name. They trust that I’m going to speak for them, that I have their best interests in heart.00:15:53.330 –> 00:16:02.570
Kamy Akhavan: I understand that. Charles, is this… is that your experience as well, that you have to be rooted in the community, a member of the community, in order to…00:16:02.570 –> 00:16:15.209
Kamy Akhavan: to better represent them to institutions, because you’re representing yourself to institutions. And related to that is how do you build trust within those communities where you are a member and a servant?00:16:16.490 –> 00:16:19.440
Charles Moody: Like, Dr. Russo,00:16:19.640 –> 00:16:32.040
Charles Moody: One, I’m a pastor, so… so I worship with the community, and I interact with other faith leaders in the community, to talk about where we are, where our faith institutions00:16:32.700 –> 00:16:35.879
Charles Moody: stand in the community,00:16:35.880 –> 00:16:53.289
Charles Moody: and we have to reach, you know, sometimes we’re reaching across faith entities, not just within one particular branch of faith. I also work within the educational world, and even the health world.00:16:53.290 –> 00:16:58.810
Charles Moody: And so, I’ve had, you know, we’ve had to walk into neighborhoods00:16:58.810 –> 00:17:23.060
Charles Moody: and learn, and spend time. We have a saying that we say at our nonprofit, no boots on the ground, we need toes in the grass. It’s not just a matter of putting in structures where people are in the space, but you gotta feel what people feel, you gotta hear the heart, you gotta hear the stories, you gotta be a part of it, and you have to experience it.00:17:23.060 –> 00:17:42.539
Charles Moody: alongside. It’s shopping, it’s worshiping, it’s laughing, it’s crying, and that trust is built over time. It’s built through conversation. It’s built through connection. I mentioned to you that there’s a physical proximity that can be gained00:17:42.540 –> 00:17:55.749
Charles Moody: By, being there and in the midst, but that physical proximity has to also be, tethered to an emotional proximity, where now, we connect and we belong.00:17:55.750 –> 00:18:14.079
Charles Moody: And what you said, Kami, is so true. The usage of pronouns, tells you a lot about people, and a lot about where, where we feel like we fit. When they start… when they… when the pronoun changes, I’m always listening for it. When the pronouns start to change.00:18:14.080 –> 00:18:19.419
Charles Moody: And it becomes we, you know, versus you, and it becomes us.00:18:19.420 –> 00:18:30.650
Charles Moody: You know, when it becomes… when they go from y’all’s pastor to, you know, to my pastor, when they go from your leader to my leader, when they go from Dr. Moody to Charles.00:18:30.650 –> 00:18:40.020
Charles Moody: you know, or when they go from Dr. Moody to Moo, then that’s telling me that now there’s… there are… there’s an emotional proximity that opens up00:18:40.020 –> 00:18:47.870
Charles Moody: for us to be, shared partners, in the experience. And shared partnership also brings shared benefits.00:18:48.300 –> 00:18:50.519
Kamy Akhavan: Shared partnership, bring shared benefits.00:18:51.170 –> 00:18:55.279
Kamy Akhavan: It does bring shared benefits. It’s also… I’d imagine it’s more…00:18:55.530 –> 00:19:10.139
Kamy Akhavan: and this is a question, is it more difficult? Is it more… as… when you… we invest ourselves emotionally into other people’s experiences, we sort of carry weight for them as well. We become… we have to…00:19:10.250 –> 00:19:17.750
Kamy Akhavan: now we have an obligation to deliver for them. It is a… it is a privilege, but it is also…00:19:17.910 –> 00:19:21.910
Kamy Akhavan: I don’t want to say burden, that’s not the right word, but it is a responsibility.00:19:23.030 –> 00:19:24.420
Kamy Akhavan: Tommy….00:19:24.480 –> 00:19:38.989
Charles Moody: I think that we have to be… my doctoral work, Dr. Russo, was dealing with authentic leadership, and that was the area where I studied. But, one of the things that one of my mentors.00:19:39.500 –> 00:19:46.779
Charles Moody: Dr. Lana Carson talks about is this idea of incarnational leadership. This idea of coming where they are.00:19:47.350 –> 00:19:50.570
Charles Moody: And that incarnational leadership means00:19:50.570 –> 00:20:15.490
Charles Moody: that I have to leave my space, whether it is within the academic world, within the faith center, within, within whatever institution, and I have to come into your world. It is not your responsibility to come into my space. As a leader and as a bridge builder. Bridges make connections. So leaders have to go in and make those connections between… and go00:20:15.490 –> 00:20:20.699
Charles Moody: Go into the space, go into the lives, learn the stories, and learn the real hurts.00:20:20.700 –> 00:20:30.610
Charles Moody: It does, but you have to, you know, you have to maintain some level of, of, of objectivity, because you can’t get so entrenched.00:20:30.790 –> 00:20:38.489
Charles Moody: You know, that you lose… that you lose scope of what you’re trying to do. But you have to be,00:20:38.790 –> 00:20:49.959
Charles Moody: impacted enough to care, impacted enough to engage, and, as Dr. Russo said, be strong enough to say, these are my people.00:20:50.040 –> 00:21:01.800
Charles Moody: You know, I have no problem saying I represent these people. I have no problem saying I’m looking out for their benefit. I have no problem saying, you know, I care about these children and these individuals.00:21:02.820 –> 00:21:10.009
Kamy Akhavan: Sylvia, I’m curious what’s going through your head as you hear Charles say these things. Are you thinking, he’s right on, or I don’t know, I see it differently?00:21:10.360 –> 00:21:18.600
Sylvia Rousseau: Oh, no, I think he’s right on. I think, so I spoke up to this point about,00:21:18.600 –> 00:21:21.720
Sylvia Rousseau: My journey as a critical bridge person.00:21:21.720 –> 00:21:45.959
Sylvia Rousseau: There’s a book that was written years ago by someone at Howard University, and the title was The Spook That Sat Beside the Door. And of course, spook was a pejorative term for Black people at that time, but it meant that you’re always at that door, making it accessible for others to enter, so that it’s not just you, but that you are making a space where others can enter.00:21:46.040 –> 00:22:02.279
Sylvia Rousseau: And in addition, I think we have to try to codify this… this will to impact institutions in a positive way for all the participants in that institution. So, after retiring.00:22:02.610 –> 00:22:15.850
Sylvia Rousseau: from USC, I began consulting with the Los Angeles Unified School District. And we, we, nationally, there’s a whole movement toward called community schools, which began way back with00:22:15.870 –> 00:22:25.289
Sylvia Rousseau: John Dewey, who are 100 years later trying to make it work. But each school or state writes their own plan in that relation.00:22:25.570 –> 00:22:34.820
Sylvia Rousseau: But, it’s called community schools in a way I think all schools should be, is that they are part of the community.00:22:35.120 –> 00:22:46.039
Sylvia Rousseau: But schools are structured in such a way that it doesn’t always allow that. It’s… they’re structured in a way to serve certain communities and not others.00:22:46.040 –> 00:22:58.430
Sylvia Rousseau: And the ways that principals are held accountable for running their schools is very much in tune with the old structures of schools. So we started new schools, and one of the features in that00:22:58.740 –> 00:22:59.870
Sylvia Rousseau: is that…00:23:00.020 –> 00:23:15.809
Sylvia Rousseau: Principals are busy doing everything, many things they don’t need to be doing, but they’re accountable. So, we solicited, from the board, to institute community schools within LA Unified.00:23:15.830 –> 00:23:34.309
Sylvia Rousseau: And, and in turn sought state funding. But one of the key pieces here is how do you create structures that preserve this? So we interviewed and created a position called a community coordinator, whose job it is00:23:34.310 –> 00:23:50.560
Sylvia Rousseau: Not principals when they have time, not teachers when they’ve taught all day, whose job is to function as a critical bridge person, to go into the community and learn about the community, interview people, shop with people, go in their meetings.00:23:50.900 –> 00:24:01.009
Sylvia Rousseau: enable them to exercise their voices in public spaces. That is that person’s job, to be a critical bridge person.00:24:01.060 –> 00:24:23.699
Sylvia Rousseau: And to then bring, in the same way, work with the school in ways that help them understand how schools can change to be more embracing of the community, how it will benefit the school and the students when those things are admissible as part of the structure of schools. So, we started with 19 schools, they still are part of Los Angeles Unified.00:24:23.950 –> 00:24:28.490
Sylvia Rousseau: But with those, they had to apply and meet those requirements.00:24:28.490 –> 00:24:47.329
Sylvia Rousseau: We now have 60 schools who are now considered community schools, and a whole team of people training those community critical bridge persons, those community coordinators and principals together, how to build schools that are intricately00:24:47.330 –> 00:25:00.929
Sylvia Rousseau: Involved with the community, act in the community’s interest, and are open to hearing what the community has to say, and admitting those assets that our children bring from their communities.00:25:01.600 –> 00:25:06.330
Kamy Akhavan: Gosh, I can appreciate this… There’s a number of benefits that come with that.00:25:07.030 –> 00:25:25.369
Kamy Akhavan: pride of association with the institution, from the community, the frequency of engagement and quality of engagement that they get from them. It reminds me of something that happened, and this is a brief diversion here, but in the Chicago Unified School District, there is an organization called Mikvah Challenge, and00:25:25.990 –> 00:25:30.410
Kamy Akhavan: students who are at a local Chicago high school, they,00:25:30.620 –> 00:25:48.880
Kamy Akhavan: were not showing up at classes, and the administrators were wondering, well, why can’t they come? So they, to their credit, went and talked to the students and the parents, and they learned that the students, they couldn’t afford the bus fare to get to campus. And they said, well, how about if the students00:25:48.920 –> 00:25:58.520
Kamy Akhavan: Figure out who is responsible for determining the amount of the bus fare, see if they can carve out an exception and allow the students to go to school.00:25:58.570 –> 00:26:01.980
Kamy Akhavan: For free, and then that way, the…00:26:02.150 –> 00:26:21.270
Kamy Akhavan: attendance is higher in the school, and then the school will get more money, so it will be a net positive. So the students themselves went before, it was at the time, Mayor Rahm Emanuel, and told their story, and he thought, this is a win-win. You know, we will spend less money and get this00:26:21.270 –> 00:26:27.230
Kamy Akhavan: this great educational benefit out of it, and it was an example of that type of community engagement.00:26:27.620 –> 00:26:40.110
Kamy Akhavan: That whole process took about 9 to 12 months or so for that to happen. And my question for you both is really one about short-term and long-term impact, because00:26:40.110 –> 00:26:42.249
Kamy Akhavan: To really become an authentic,00:26:42.250 –> 00:27:00.440
Kamy Akhavan: voice for your community and be embedded in it, and these are things that, as you both said, they take some time to earn the trust and to learn. And some of the problems of the community have such urgency to them that some people feel like, I can’t wait one year for this, I can’t wait this long, we need to solve this today.00:27:00.520 –> 00:27:02.579
Kamy Akhavan: And I wonder, how do you think about00:27:02.670 –> 00:27:16.600
Kamy Akhavan: timing when you are doing this type of work? Do you structure it for short-term wins? Do you just think long-term gain? You know, how do you balance that as you’re building, building, building, and to still get some wins?00:27:16.920 –> 00:27:20.489
Charles Moody: I’ll tell you a quick story. We…00:27:20.850 –> 00:27:33.649
Charles Moody: There was an area of, within Austin that, was the… had the highest morbidity rates, the highest mortality rates, the people were… were the sickest and the poorest, but they had no clinic.00:27:34.010 –> 00:27:35.940
Charles Moody: We worked with00:27:36.340 –> 00:27:41.080
Charles Moody: The entity that was supposed to provide, that type of care to those individuals.00:27:41.350 –> 00:27:49.589
Charles Moody: And, you know, for years, you know, 30 years, these people have been clamoring, needing assistance, needing help.00:27:49.590 –> 00:28:11.260
Charles Moody: So, what we did, we started… we worked with the entity and began to, you know, teach the entity how to talk culturally, and how to understand what it is people were really saying, and what it is they were asking. Two, we worked with the community members and developed a board, and we taught them00:28:11.260 –> 00:28:15.760
Charles Moody: The structure of the entity, and how the entity interacts.00:28:15.760 –> 00:28:20.670
Charles Moody: We built a board, we actually located the land.00:28:20.770 –> 00:28:34.820
Charles Moody: And we talked to the landowner, and told the landowner, we wanted to build a clinic there, and we wanted to see if we could purchase some of their land. We actually then were the bridge builder, and we talked to the entity.00:28:34.820 –> 00:28:44.989
Charles Moody: And we told the entity, this is how you talk to this person, this is what you’re gonna say, don’t say this, say that. So we negotiated the land purchase.00:28:44.990 –> 00:29:06.929
Charles Moody: all the way to, they purchased the land, and now, right now, there is an… there is a clinic, full-functioning clinic, that, that the city built in that area. So it… it becomes this, space where, as trusted believers… you asked me a question, I wanted to just divert back to the question. Time.00:29:06.930 –> 00:29:10.220
Charles Moody: Is a way that you build trust, reliability.00:29:10.220 –> 00:29:15.740
Charles Moody: is a way you build trust. Competency is a way you build trust, and accountability.00:29:15.740 –> 00:29:32.779
Charles Moody: you know, those things, time, reliability, competency, people believing in you. So we did this, and we built several, we’re on our third clinic now, that we’ve used this model of, let’s engage people, and let’s teach00:29:32.920 –> 00:29:46.980
Charles Moody: the people how to teach the entity how to work with the people, but also teach the people that the entity doesn’t turn over overnight, you know? So… so this large-term goal is a series of small-term goals. I don’t know if that makes sense.00:29:47.130 –> 00:29:48.400
Kamy Akhavan: I see, I see.00:29:49.220 –> 00:30:05.649
Kamy Akhavan: How do you respond to that, Sylvia? Do you think similarly about the long-term gains and the short-term wins along the way? Or do you think we gotta just focus on the long-term gain, because these are big structural changes we’re trying to achieve? Or how, you know, how do you think about that?00:30:05.960 –> 00:30:06.800
Sylvia Rousseau: Both.00:30:06.880 –> 00:30:08.790
Kamy Akhavan: So, short….00:30:08.890 –> 00:30:12.279
Sylvia Rousseau: If you are operating00:30:12.820 –> 00:30:20.369
Sylvia Rousseau: with integrity and deeper understandings of the issues. You chop away at them day by day.00:30:20.590 –> 00:30:23.690
Sylvia Rousseau: But also, you change structures.00:30:24.020 –> 00:30:26.650
Sylvia Rousseau: I am so committed00:30:26.800 –> 00:30:44.450
Sylvia Rousseau: to the concept of changing systems and structures, and the way they function. Because you can get short-term victories, but it’s the rubber band effect takes place. They go right back to the way they were. So, yes, we should go for those short-term. People need hope along the way.00:30:44.460 –> 00:30:58.850
Sylvia Rousseau: But the real issue is changing systems and instructions and positioning yourself in places where you can affect those. So, when I’m a school board member, or when I’m a superintendent.00:30:59.080 –> 00:31:03.400
Sylvia Rousseau: That gives me the… the entrance.00:31:03.680 –> 00:31:22.410
Sylvia Rousseau: to speak to structures. When I’m teaching students who are preparing to be administrators, I’m speaking to them about structures and systems. I often say to teachers, you work hard, and you go home tired, and you don’t know why.00:31:22.630 –> 00:31:26.040
Sylvia Rousseau: Well, part of it isn’t because you’re not working.00:31:26.050 –> 00:31:45.129
Sylvia Rousseau: the system… so I’m helping people recognize systems and structures. How do we treat children’s language differences when they enter school? Does it become a deficit, or do we have programs and funding that support the language they have as they transition into academic English?00:31:45.130 –> 00:31:47.340
Sylvia Rousseau: So, how do we, …00:31:47.370 –> 00:31:56.430
Sylvia Rousseau: treat discipline problems and the suspension rate. Yes, we should try to work on reducing, but sometimes that results in people just00:31:56.430 –> 00:32:16.340
Sylvia Rousseau: doing manipulative things to show that their data don’t show. But how do you look at what system or structure is in place that prohibits certain students from having a voice and a say and a dignity in this place? So you work on both of them at the same time.00:32:16.340 –> 00:32:17.820
Sylvia Rousseau: But knowing that00:32:17.880 –> 00:32:33.579
Sylvia Rousseau: institutions change as some of the systems and structures that are so… they’re so imperceptible that we don’t even see them. So uncovering those so that people see, oh, that’s the problem.00:32:33.580 –> 00:32:56.919
Sylvia Rousseau: My child’s not the problem, this child’s not. Someone said to me once when students were in our high school, and they were coming from an outside district, and they said, well, we just need to get rid of these students who don’t live in this community. And I said, I’m committed to getting rid of the problem, but I’m not committed to getting rid of students. And so, that has to be the mindset.00:32:57.060 –> 00:33:16.439
Sylvia Rousseau: That this is a step along the way, but the real objective is to position ourselves in places where we address those structures that are so entranced in our districts and our children and these institutions that they keep repeating the same social structures and outcomes over and over.00:33:17.190 –> 00:33:20.859
Kamy Akhavan: understood, and I… I take your point about,00:33:21.220 –> 00:33:29.110
Kamy Akhavan: collecting winds along the way, and it’s not one or the other, short-term or long-term, and I’m just thinking of an analogy of, like, a plant. If the plant00:33:29.110 –> 00:33:43.529
Kamy Akhavan: is supposed to be green, and it’s yellow, the solution is not, well, I better paint it green. No, the solution is something is causing it to turn this color, so what is it… what can we do to address the root cause? And these root causes really are systems.00:33:43.530 –> 00:33:47.400
Kamy Akhavan: And those are sometimes the hardest things to change.00:33:47.400 –> 00:34:05.859
Sylvia Rousseau: I just want to say, finally, helping communities to understand that the issues are systems and structures. Many times, they’re striking against what’s immediate and don’t see what the underlying… so giving them voice, giving them an opportunity to address the systems.00:34:06.480 –> 00:34:11.699
Kamy Akhavan: And I’m curious for both of you, like, As we age, the…00:34:11.820 –> 00:34:15.399
Kamy Akhavan: our perspectives change. That’s just a natural part of.00:34:15.409 –> 00:34:16.229
Sylvia Rousseau: I’m a witness.00:34:16.230 –> 00:34:17.090
Kamy Akhavan: evolution, right?00:34:17.090 –> 00:34:18.190
Sylvia Rousseau: Full witness to that.00:34:18.199 –> 00:34:30.079
Kamy Akhavan: Right? And I wonder, at the ages where you are now, how do you look at these issues differently than you did before? And what I’m trying to understand is.00:34:30.449 –> 00:34:42.539
Kamy Akhavan: is if you could frame it as advice for someone who’s in their 20s, 30s, who’s thinking, I’m gonna go change the world, but you have accumulated all this knowledge and wisdom to say, like, okay, great.00:34:42.539 –> 00:34:50.619
Kamy Akhavan: But I want you to be thinking about it in this particular way, because believe me, I’ve learned my lessons. Do you have any insights to share that are based…00:34:50.619 –> 00:34:57.129
Kamy Akhavan: On your… the wisdom you’ve accumulated over the years to speak to community leadership.00:34:58.450 –> 00:35:01.929
Charles Moody: … I think, one.00:35:03.050 –> 00:35:19.099
Charles Moody: is that when… when it comes to, when I was younger, I, you know, I was, to be very… put it frankly, I was… I would burn the whole entity down, you know, just, let’s go in the… let’s, let’s, let’s tear it all and burn it all down. You know, …00:35:19.260 –> 00:35:25.950
Charles Moody: But I, I, I quickly learned that, that although that passion…00:35:26.600 –> 00:35:33.380
Charles Moody: Sometimes can, can, can be better, funneled through a strategy.00:35:33.820 –> 00:35:43.519
Charles Moody: You know, you can still have that energy and that passion, but if you attach it to a strategy, you can be… you can actually see it come to pass.00:35:43.520 –> 00:35:56.560
Charles Moody: And so, we’ve learned… I’ve learned to swim uphill, or swim upstream, to learn… I went and got a master’s in economic development because I wanted to understand how… how the city works.00:35:56.670 –> 00:35:58.420
Charles Moody: And then…00:35:58.420 –> 00:36:21.409
Charles Moody: I wanted to teach others how to understand how these entities work. So we put people on boards in the criminal justice system, in the reentry system. We put people on boards in the educational system and in institutions so that we could not just be reactive to the problem downstream, but we could actually implement change00:36:21.410 –> 00:36:27.339
Charles Moody: upstream. So, I think that strategy, along with passion.00:36:27.340 –> 00:36:42.859
Charles Moody: it was the key that I learned, not just passion and energy, because, like Dr. Russo said, you could be hammering against, you know, this nail, and you really find out what you really needed was a screwdriver, you know, the entire time.00:36:42.880 –> 00:36:46.510
Kamy Akhavan: What a great analogy.00:36:46.910 –> 00:37:00.350
Kamy Akhavan: Sylvie, what about for you? What is the, … what would… what advice would you give to your 20, 30-year-old self that is, looking back now, you’d say, this is the wisdom you’ve accumulated, and now how you think about community and leadership?00:37:02.390 –> 00:37:09.829
Sylvia Rousseau: That’s a… I’ve spent a lot of time with it, I’m not sure I can articulate it, but one of the things that I…00:37:10.500 –> 00:37:13.629
Sylvia Rousseau: think I am learning, still learning.00:37:14.080 –> 00:37:19.859
Sylvia Rousseau: I found the power… I went late to get a doctorate.00:37:20.550 –> 00:37:22.330
Sylvia Rousseau: I had… my children were grump.00:37:22.570 –> 00:37:26.230
Sylvia Rousseau: But I realized that,00:37:26.510 –> 00:37:29.960
Sylvia Rousseau: as a principal, there at Santa Monica.00:37:30.190 –> 00:37:36.399
Sylvia Rousseau: Just expressing my thoughts are my insights.00:37:36.500 –> 00:37:53.000
Sylvia Rousseau: were not enough. I really needed to turn people to the research. I really need to turn people to deeper understandings of their own, so that they would come to conclusions about the ways they should act, or the ways they view the community.00:37:53.040 –> 00:38:05.149
Sylvia Rousseau: So I started really using data and research a lot more so that it was plain to people, and then they made decisions. It wasn’t just the principal making decisions.00:38:05.230 –> 00:38:24.440
Sylvia Rousseau: And one of the things that I start bringing together, substituting teachers out of their classes two hours every two weeks, to come together in what we call inquiry groups about problems that we saw at the school, that we’d identified through data, through our experiences.00:38:24.760 –> 00:38:38.120
Sylvia Rousseau: And it was amazing to me what those teachers… they met in small groups, and they had substitute teachers, they met regularly. When they addressed those problems, they came up with solutions that were00:38:38.220 –> 00:38:46.290
Sylvia Rousseau: And we started having parents join teachers in those sessions. Then the teachers start asking students to be at present.00:38:46.290 –> 00:38:59.630
Sylvia Rousseau: And it was amazing the kinds of ways people understood the problems that we faced, that I alone could not make clear, or that maybe I didn’t understand fully.00:38:59.650 –> 00:39:02.140
Sylvia Rousseau: So I think using…00:39:02.290 –> 00:39:15.650
Sylvia Rousseau: Knowledge, increasing… giving people access and encouraging them to access knowledge, making it available, and then the liberty to act on that knowledge in ways.00:39:16.320 –> 00:39:18.040
Kamy Akhavan: Understand. The…00:39:19.080 –> 00:39:35.529
Kamy Akhavan: We have been together for a short time today, and I’ve already not just learned so much and gained intelligence, but I feel like I’m gaining insights and wisdom and gaining perspective. And I imagine a lot of people who are watching you today feel the same way that I do. And what I… my question is.00:39:35.590 –> 00:39:41.210
Kamy Akhavan: In order for our audience to support and learn more about the things that you are working on.00:39:42.300 –> 00:39:46.579
Kamy Akhavan: How can they do that? How can they reach out to you? How do you want the…00:39:46.770 –> 00:39:53.330
Kamy Akhavan: If you had an ask of our listeners, what would that be? And I’ll start with you, Charleston, and then go to you next, Sylvia.00:39:54.170 –> 00:40:06.140
Charles Moody: One, of course, you know, you can always follow the Community Coalition for Health, the Community Coalition for Health, or C2H, you can follow us on, on, …00:40:06.230 –> 00:40:18.829
Charles Moody: Instagram, or any, you know, LinkedIn, or you can look for Dr. Charles Moody on LinkedIn, and find out what we’re doing, to, one, partner.00:40:18.830 –> 00:40:38.299
Charles Moody: Two, contribute. Three, ask, you know, ask and see, you know, what it is you can do and how it is you can become a part of, of anything that we’re doing. we, we have a real open-door policy, and we’re always looking for people, with strategy, people with experience.00:40:38.300 –> 00:40:41.579
Charles Moody: People with passion, who just want to help.00:40:41.580 –> 00:41:04.979
Charles Moody: And we love to work with people, no matter where you are in life, because everybody is an asset. Everybody has a skill set. Everybody has something to bring, to the table, and to help… to help move the needle. Or if, you know, if you say, hey, there’s something we’re doing in our city, and we want to know what you guys think, and00:41:04.980 –> 00:41:16.300
Charles Moody: We’d love to engage with you. So, engagement on any level, connecting with me or the entity on any level, would be great and welcomed.00:41:17.030 –> 00:41:21.620
Kamy Akhavan: You’re welcome, alright. And how about for you, Sylvia? What would be your ask of our audience today?00:41:21.860 –> 00:41:33.610
Sylvia Rousseau: So, I’m no longer associated with institutions at this point, but I’m writing, and so they can read my book, or buy my book.00:41:33.900 –> 00:41:48.220
Sylvia Rousseau: And support that effort. I think it really is important, but also through my daughter, for whom I’m substituting today. She’s… has great access, or through your channel. But I, …00:41:48.490 –> 00:42:07.440
Sylvia Rousseau: Or, you know, I do… I don’t want to make this so open, but I do bring people together in the whole way of the salons that they used to have during the Harlem Renaissance. We bring people together and have discussions on some of these matters, but those are some of the ways. And of course, my email works, yes.00:42:08.500 –> 00:42:26.929
Kamy Akhavan: I appreciate that, and you know, we’ve only got a couple of minutes left, and I know there’s a lot more that you can share. We could have this conversation for weeks and still not be done exhausting your knowledge of community and leadership. But before we close for the day, I wanted to ask if you have any parting thoughts, any00:42:27.650 –> 00:42:44.609
Kamy Akhavan: Real insights that you really want an audience to understand about your experience and advice for how to build community, how to be a strong community leader within and beyond the institutions with which you are or were associated with.00:42:46.450 –> 00:42:50.970
Charles Moody: … I would say one is, …00:42:51.520 –> 00:42:59.509
Charles Moody: Probably my greatest work to date, other than the entities, would be my book, Ecological Lynching.00:42:59.980 –> 00:43:08.840
Charles Moody: It’s a book that talks about development and how the systems, on the systems level, impact people of color.00:43:09.480 –> 00:43:25.090
Charles Moody: It shows my passion, it shows my history, and it shows what I think about how leaders can be involved and engaged. Being immersive, getting involved, in the problem, learning, listening.00:43:25.090 –> 00:43:34.610
Charles Moody: And living with the problem, actually puts you in a better position, to actually be a part of the solution.00:43:36.290 –> 00:43:51.909
Kamy Akhavan: The focus on listening. Boy, is that one of my life lessons. We got two ears and one mouth, and we should use them in that proportion. How about for you, Sylvia? What are some of your parting wisdom and advice and insight to share with the audience?00:43:53.020 –> 00:43:59.580
Sylvia Rousseau: So, I always use this analogy. I’ve used it speaking with a group of teachers about a month ago.00:43:59.750 –> 00:44:17.799
Sylvia Rousseau: So Shakespeare says, all the world’s a stage, the men and women merely players. We have our entrances and our exits. In some degree, I’m exiting from that arena. But I’m encouraging people who are on the stage now to play your part well and do it better than I did.00:44:17.930 –> 00:44:23.809
Sylvia Rousseau: And to underst… and commit to that ongoing process that it…00:44:24.000 –> 00:44:39.800
Sylvia Rousseau: Nothing is changed without a struggle, but be content… to be willing to go home in tears sometime, to get your butt kicked by public comment, to be willing to bear all that and not take it personally, but know it’s part of the process.00:44:41.450 –> 00:44:56.350
Kamy Akhavan: Boy, you both made my heart full, and it seems like when we work together, and we listen, and we bring community into our institutions, and institutions into our communities, there are very few problems that we cannot solve, or at least make better for the people we care about and the communities we care about.00:44:56.350 –> 00:45:04.620
Kamy Akhavan: So, thank you. Thank you for sharing these insights with us today. I know you’ve made a lot of people smiling on the other side of these video cameras, so thank you for that.00:45:04.690 –> 00:45:21.539
Kamy Akhavan: And to those of you who joined us today, thank you for making time in your day to watch this video, the Leading Forward webinar series. Like I mentioned, this is the third of three, so you can go back and revisit the ones that you have not already seen. Today’s talk, again, was Community as Strategy, Leadership Beyond the Institution.00:45:21.540 –> 00:45:27.919
Kamy Akhavan: To Dr. Charles Moody, thank you very much. Dr. Sylvie Russo, a great pleasure. I appreciate you so much.00:45:27.990 –> 00:45:30.029
Kamy Akhavan: and to the USC community?00:45:30.350 –> 00:45:31.180
Kamy Akhavan: Fight on.
From Experience to Impact: Reinvention in the Second Half of Life
Date: July 31, 2025
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00:00:03.410 –> 00:00:21.000
Kamy Akhavan: Well, Hello, everyone, and welcome to a talk we have for you today called from experience to impact reinvention in the second half of life is a program that I’m honored to be able to present along with the Usc. Distinguished leaders program 2 of its alum00:00:21.170 –> 00:00:32.610
Kamy Akhavan: and all of you who are joining us today are watching on video. So thank you for being here today, we’re going to talk a lot about retirement, what it means, what that second or 3rd or 4th act in life might look like.00:00:33.310 –> 00:00:53.979
Kamy Akhavan: and to say who I am by way of background. My name is Kami Akavon. I’m the managing director of the Usc. Dornsteve Center for the political future. I also had the great privilege of being able to serve as one of the instructors in the distinguished leaders program for those of you who don’t know the Usc. Distinguished Leaders program is a program designed for00:00:54.280 –> 00:01:09.580
Kamy Akhavan: executives looking for the second or 3rd act of their lives. What kind of impact do they want to make? And thinking through what the next phase of their life might look like might have been very successful in their business careers and think, well, that’s great. Made a lot of money. But00:01:09.580 –> 00:01:29.159
Kamy Akhavan: what next? What do I really care about? What do I really want to do. And how can I go into that next phase of life and transition with purpose, with a plan? With this really great excited feeling about what comes next. It’s a tough thing for many people to do. So the distinguished leaders program is a way for them to basically go back to school.00:01:29.160 –> 00:01:39.160
Kamy Akhavan: think through all these things, get exposed to different experts in various content areas, have some travel experiences meet with cohorts just like you would in college, only00:01:39.160 –> 00:01:53.949
Kamy Akhavan: you’re quite a bit older, and it’s been a magical program for everyone I know who’s experienced it. So I’m very honored to be able to sing its praises as well as hear from some of its alum as we explore a really tough topic in our society, and that’s that of retirement.00:01:54.220 –> 00:01:58.940
Kamy Akhavan: So today I’m eager to share the stage with00:01:59.080 –> 00:02:10.669
Kamy Akhavan: 2 of the alum. One is Regine de Chantal, and she’s joining us, I believe, from San Francisco, and then we have Felicia Schwartz, who is joining us from00:02:10.960 –> 00:02:24.430
Kamy Akhavan: New York. And I’d like to ask, starting with you, Rogine, if you don’t mind just introducing yourself more fully and explaining what made you join the Usc. Distinguished Leaders program and, Felicia, you’ll be on deck.00:02:25.000 –> 00:02:31.150
RoJean DeChantal: Thanks. Cami, my idea of joining the distinguished leaders program was really about00:02:31.490 –> 00:02:47.539
RoJean DeChantal: discovering where I was in retirement, and discovering that I had had the time to look at my life. Look at a little bit of leisure, and then asking myself that question, What’s next?00:02:47.560 –> 00:03:05.789
RoJean DeChantal: And we can talk a little bit more about that, but I have a background in human resources. I retired from that position. Then I took on 3 or 4 more other positions, and I’ve retired from those positions. And so the last time that I retired, I said, Okay, what is next for me00:03:05.790 –> 00:03:17.690
RoJean DeChantal: and what I said that I really wanted to do was to find a purpose, find something bigger than myself, find something that I could contribute, based on my experience, my wisdom, my age, Grace.00:03:17.760 –> 00:03:27.709
RoJean DeChantal: And so that’s why I chose the distinguished leaders program, and we’ll talk about the excitement that I found in it, and we’ll talk about what’s next for me.00:03:28.260 –> 00:03:34.950
Kamy Akhavan: Love, love to hear it. Thank you for that. How about you, Felicia? What brought you to the program? And please share a little bit about your background.00:03:34.950 –> 00:03:54.257
Felicia Schwartz: Yeah, thanks. Cami, so my background is in technology. And I spent many, many years. I won’t give a number out helping both companies in both the public and the private sector use technology to drive business results. I love that. I still enjoy it. But00:03:54.660 –> 00:04:17.919
Felicia Schwartz: with Covid. But even before Covid, I’ve always worked with technology to do good, whether it was for companies or for customers, when you could go in and buy something easier, and things are easier for you to do. That was my goal with getting into technology. What I started seeing with social media was the negative impact it was having on people. Primarily the youth00:04:18.079 –> 00:04:34.210
Felicia Schwartz: Covid exacerbated it, and I wanted to do something to show that the technology can be used to help. And I was looking at children to young adults like a pre teenages, because I saw a lot of people that I knew children of friends.00:04:35.145 –> 00:04:55.409
Felicia Schwartz: Well, friends of both ways. Really struggling in getting into drugs. It really the bullying that was going on really impacted me emotionally, and I wanted to do something when AI came out. And obviously we’ve all heard AI and the impact it’s having. I wanted to make sure I could help out00:04:55.530 –> 00:05:11.010
Felicia Schwartz: to use it in a good way. It’s very dangerous. We’ve probably all heard the stories of how negative things come from it. But I wanted to work on a way that the technology could be used to help people and combat the bullying and the impact. The negative impact. Social media has had.00:05:11.920 –> 00:05:37.469
Kamy Akhavan: That’s wonderful a way to do social good jujitsu. Take the technology and leverage it for good and good on you for doing it, and good on you, Regina. I’ve had many conversations with you both, and we’ve talked extensively about purpose in the next acts, and the word retirement comes up a lot in our conversations, but maybe we can talk a little bit more about that word itself, retirement. And what is it?00:05:38.200 –> 00:05:58.619
Kamy Akhavan: What 1st signaled you, or prompted you to think you know what I think it’s about time. Was it age? Was it just getting tired with your career? Was it? You had saved up enough money, and we’re tired of the work. What were those signals for you to think? It’s time to start thinking about a transition in the next phase, and if I can I’ll start with you. Regine.00:05:59.160 –> 00:06:22.549
RoJean DeChantal: Well, I think a couple of things. One is, you know, the term retirement. We all don’t kind of like it, because we really want to find another word. But retirement really started in the thirties, and it was a desire to help people exit, and people were considered tired, old, aged, and infirmed.00:06:22.660 –> 00:06:36.870
RoJean DeChantal: And then it came in the fifties where marketing really created. This retirement is leisure. You go play golf, you go on cruises, etc, and and then they created these leisure communities in the southern parts of the United States.00:06:37.300 –> 00:06:50.310
RoJean DeChantal: and in the last, and that has continued up until the last 5 years or so where we are now thinking about, and it’s almost an evolution revolution about. Wait a minute. We’re not old and firmed00:06:51.160 –> 00:07:19.839
RoJean DeChantal: and immobile. We’re thinking about health span instead of lifespan. We’re thinking about wellness. We’re thinking about lifelong learning. We’re thinking about. What else can we do in this with our wisdom and our age. And so I really in the last time quote, I retired. I really didn’t make that choice. That choice was made for me, and that happens to a lot of people as well. And so, as I sat there and said, Hmm.00:07:20.410 –> 00:07:39.260
RoJean DeChantal: where am I in this process? Because I really didn’t have the opportunity to quote plan. I didn’t have the opportunity to think, Okay, where am I going to go? And vision and values, etc? So I said, I guess it’s up to me to begin to explore what is retirement today.00:07:39.660 –> 00:07:51.520
RoJean DeChantal: and how does retirement work? And is it really retirement, or should we just rename it. Reinvention, or should we rename it? The 3rd chapter and I’ve decided to rename it. Reinvention for myself.00:07:51.950 –> 00:08:07.080
RoJean DeChantal: because I recognize it’s up to me. Who am I? What are my values? What is my passion? Where’s my vision? I get a chance to. I get a chance to reinvent, and that’s what I’m excited about.00:08:07.690 –> 00:08:37.570
Kamy Akhavan: Yeah, that’s wonderful that you have this attitude, and I suspect you’ve had that attitude for a long time. But the idea of leaning into your wisdom. And the phrase you used health span versus lifespan because we are people are living longer. They just are the current Us. Average life expectancy is about 79 years old, and I believe 65 is the age of Medicare. So that leaves what about 14 years of good living.00:08:37.570 –> 00:08:38.590
RoJean DeChantal: More than that.00:08:38.590 –> 00:08:57.350
Kamy Akhavan: More than that, I’m sure it’s more than that, particularly for women. It’s quite a bit older. And I’m thinking, too, about the average retirement ages right now, the average retirement age is 66. So it was 63 in 2,002, and in 1991 going back. What’s that 500:08:57.810 –> 00:09:21.579
Kamy Akhavan: a ways, 30 plus years. It was 57. So we’re retiring later. But we’re living longer. And because of our healthcare systems, you know, we’re we’re healthier like you said. We’re not infirm and immobile. We can be very vigorous and active, so we do have to rethink what it means. Besides, lives of leisure and retirement communities. So okay, so, Felicia, same question for you, which is00:09:21.580 –> 00:09:37.370
Kamy Akhavan: what prompted you to start thinking about retirement life outside of you know your high powered tech New York World, and thinking, you know, I want to do something totally different. And that’s what retirement means to you. When did you start thinking about these things. And what did it mean for you?00:09:37.830 –> 00:10:01.410
Felicia Schwartz: So, as I said, I started seeing with Covid the impact on children and AI coming in. The urge came into me to do something different. In addition, the tech industry was changing. A lot of companies were moving offshore. So I saw a lot of companies like, you know, roles that I was in. Things moved offshore, people got laid off. So it was. It kind of the surrounding environments.00:10:01.520 –> 00:10:26.560
Felicia Schwartz: said Time to make a change. What do you want to do back. When I was in my twenties. Earlier in my career I had dabbled with going to law school, and I took the Lsats, got into law school and was going to go there. I was working full time in technology on Wall Street, and then, literally, the day before I was supposed to start. I backed out, and I got nervous that00:10:26.620 –> 00:10:53.089
you know the cost of law school and switching careers. I couldn’t do it, so I got too nervous about that. But the goal I had for going to law school then was to help kids. And I was very sensitive to kids that are in the foster system, who the courts have taken, you know, taken them away for their families, and my intent to go to law school was to advocate for children, and as I said, I didn’t do it because I panicked about.00:10:53.240 –> 00:11:18.060
There’s no money in it. You’re doing it because it’s a good thing you want to help, and I just got too nervous living in New York. It’s not a cheap place to live, but that’s always been in my heart of something I wanted to do so, as the world around me was changing, it started making me think about what I wanted to do. I don’t think I am a New Yorker. I don’t think I could ever not do anything like the life of leisure is probably more stressful than me than a life of overwork. So that’s when I started coming up with a product idea00:11:18.150 –> 00:11:25.360
that really is geared towards helping initially children to help them deal with the anxiety when they don’t have someone they trust around them to talk, but very safe way of dealing with it to just help kids just relax.00:11:25.710 –> 00:11:40.650
Don’t feel bullied. Offset the impact social media is having on them really try to get them away from the things that right now every kid is on, because it’s just, you know, habit and get them into something that’s more comforting for them. So I’m not doing that. It’s why I chose that in addition to I have a consulting company that I started as well. So I have both things. Because there are 24 h in a day, 7 days a week. So.00:12:09.480 –> 00:12:34.320
I hear it in a way that law school story is quite impressive, because, in a way, it’s kind of a full circle moment for you the thing that was in your heart, that you were one day away from starting that transition you saved it for for later, and of course built so many more life skills, strengthened your network and and gained all this valuable experience. And I guess that leads me to my next question, and I’ll start with you, Felicia, which is00:12:34.480 –> 00:12:48.860
those skills that you developed in your career. My question is about how well do those translate to the thing that you’re thinking about for what’s next? And I want to preface that question or add some more context, real quick, which is00:12:49.410 –> 00:12:51.799
people I know, who have retired00:12:52.360 –> 00:13:19.780
go through such a stressful time when they do it. They’re like, what am I doing all day? I don’t just want to watch Netflix, you know. I paid the bills. I clean the attic like. Now, what do I do? I feel so. I was a high powered somebody in my career. And now look at me. I’m just. I’m doing nothing. And and they they really don’t like it. And for you you’re looking at it very differently. It’s like you’re excited about it. So I’m curious to like how much of those00:13:19.780 –> 00:13:28.280
of your career skills and life skills and and attitudes that you developed. How? How do you see that kind of transitioning into the what’s next.00:13:28.740 –> 00:13:41.760
Yeah, I would be like the people you mentioned. I don’t think I can really, comfortably, just not have structure. I do like structure. I do like routine. I like to accomplish something, and yes, cleaning out00:13:41.870 –> 00:14:00.979
closet is very cathartic for the moment, but it’s short term, and I’ve always been a longer term thing. So I needed for me to transition and find something more. You know, bigger. I think now is a better time, because I’ve led teams in my in my technology and consulting career.00:14:01.130 –> 00:14:11.169
So I worked on Wall Street for the 1st half of my career. And I’ve done consulting the second half. I’ve learned how to lead people. I’ve learned how to lead products and projects at large scale00:14:11.300 –> 00:14:40.850
the leadership, regardless of what that context is when you’re when you’re leading something, you’re outcome driven. So my outcomes are different. Now. What I’m trying to do, how I measure success is different, but how I go about getting there and knowing that I do have to have, you know, outcomes. And what are they and engaging? I don’t know everything. When I was younger I probably thought I did. But and I’m tapping into an area of mental health. I’m not a mental health person. I’m a technology person. So00:14:40.850 –> 00:14:57.979
reaching out to people and being more confident to reach out to other people and learn from them that are in the mental health field, be it social workers, psychiatrists, and learning from them. I don’t think I could have done that without the experience I have and the confidence I’ve built up00:14:58.286 –> 00:15:04.729
of saying like, you know. And if somebody hangs up on you, that’s okay. And and having a mission. So00:15:04.730 –> 00:15:29.639
this isn’t a mission about money. I don’t know if I could do it if it was just about making money, but having a mission that’s above me. This isn’t about me. I win because I feel like I’ve made an impact on the world. And that’s why I joined the Usc program because it’s about doing something that’s bigger than you. So again, my skills from the past, allow me to say just like I would have done it for a client I could. Now my client is now00:15:29.670 –> 00:15:42.659
people in a more broader sense than a paying client. And and to me that’s going to be a success, knowing if I could, if I could do something that makes at least one life better, hopefully, more. But then it’ll all be worth it.00:15:43.290 –> 00:15:56.479
Well, you’ve already checked that box better. But I really like the way that you think about it, because it’s it’s almost beyond purpose. I mean, the purpose is is like a legacy purpose. It’s you’re trying to make00:15:56.670 –> 00:16:08.040
your immediate community better, but also strangers and your society. And it’s it’s really big thinking. And and that’s commendable. And and I appreciate what you said about how00:16:08.390 –> 00:16:11.809
you couldn’t have done that same thing00:16:11.970 –> 00:16:30.249
a few decades ago. You have a bigger network. You have more confidence. You can accept rejection. You can move on you. You know how to pivot better like these life skills that you’ve accumulated, I guess, form a wisdom, and you’ve been able to leverage that and lean into that. And00:16:30.380 –> 00:16:54.060
and so that kind of makes me wonder about you, Regine, because you’ve been a high powered Hr. Executive for your career. And you’ve seen people as they transition into their retired lives. And now here you are thinking, okay, my turn right. And I wonder how those skills have served you? Do you find that those skills you’ve accumulated are helping you now00:16:54.060 –> 00:17:04.739
in thinking about the next act, or do you feel stuck like everybody else like I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to watch TV all day. How are you thinking about this next phase.00:17:05.220 –> 00:17:15.335
Well, 2 things. One is, I think, what you talked about is purpose is is really important. But in terms of my skills, as hr,00:17:16.220 –> 00:17:43.849
One of the things that you do in Hr is you learn who people are, and you learn all kinds of people, and you learn challenges, etc, of what their daily life is at work. Whether you’re the bad guy or the good guy in human resources, you do learn all that, and a couple of other pieces of my career is that I also was an adjunct professor at the university in terms of teaching, and I’ve also did a nonprofit startup, where we00:17:43.850 –> 00:17:50.660
tried to bring Hr. Practices into nonprofits. And so here’s what I’ve discovered is I’m really good at coaching people.00:17:53.960 –> 00:17:56.520
I’m really good at mentoring people00:17:57.000 –> 00:18:07.740
and how I’m choosing to use those skills because they’ve they’ve grown. They’ve advanced. I also was a job search coach for people who had lost their positions.00:18:08.040 –> 00:18:08.630
Oh, wow!00:18:08.630 –> 00:18:13.800
Which is kind of in some ways as we choose, whether we choose to retire or we don’t.00:18:13.960 –> 00:18:38.160
And so what I’ve discovered is as I’m going through this myself with the ups and downs of learning who I am in terms of the process, in terms of what my struggles are in terms of quote retirement. I am looking to use those skills in a different area. I’m going to learn all about retirement. In fact, the moment I’ve00:18:38.590 –> 00:18:45.610
of a great number of research in terms of retirement. And so I’m looking to become a00:18:45.720 –> 00:18:54.799
a certified retirement lifestyle coach, because I think that experiencing something yourself00:18:55.040 –> 00:19:13.500
allows you to really relate to the people that you want to be helping. And that’s what I want to do to all those people that don’t know what to do, because they’re watching TV and eating bonbons on their couch. Come on because there are processes, because one of the things we do need.00:19:13.650 –> 00:19:19.290
And I’ve talked to many, many people who have retired is they need a reason to get up in the morning.00:19:19.820 –> 00:19:46.770
and they need a reason to say I have a purpose. Whether that purpose is becoming the best grandparent you can ever be, whether that purpose is I want to delve into a passion that I had before, like Felicia, that I want to delve into and really explore it. Whether it means I even want to be entrepreneurial and start a new business, or I even want to work part time. All of those things impact how we look at the00:19:47.040 –> 00:20:13.730
opportunity we have to reinvent ourselves. And then, of course, when you are retired or retiring, and you have a partner, a spouse, then you know that also kind of complicates the challenge a bit, because the 2 of you might not be on the same wavelength. So that’s the excitement that I have in terms of looking forward to saying, I know the challenges I’ve experienced. I know the research and the certifications that I have now. How can I help others?00:20:14.070 –> 00:20:20.890
Yeah. I I like how you the way you frame that and use the word reinvent. And00:20:20.980 –> 00:20:44.649
and when I think about people who are retired. They are not sitting around watching TV, like many of them, have found other purpose, and they have reinvented themselves. And I’m thinking, like, when Felicia was thinking about the law School and kind of imagined this life, but then took some steps like, Take the Lsat, apply to schools, and you put concrete steps in place to get to that next phase.00:20:44.650 –> 00:21:08.960
And so here you are. Now, Regina, you’ve got these tremendous experience, these tremendous ideas, and I’m curious, then. So what are the concrete steps that you take? And how do you know that they’re the right steps, and of the 1,000 things you might have thought that you want to do with your life like? What are the things that you’re actually building? Now to go to that next.00:21:08.980 –> 00:21:10.530
that next phase.00:21:11.530 –> 00:21:36.350
One was, I went to the distinguished leaders program because that helped me. It really did help me explore new ideas. Okay? And that’s the things the thing that the program did for me is it said, Okay, routine. Who are you? What values do you have? What skills do you have? How do you want to make an impact in your life and in other people’s lives? Because that’s what I’ve done all my life.00:21:36.540 –> 00:21:53.850
And then I came across. Really the idea of well, let’s have a gap year, just like high school students have a gap year from high school to college. Why can’t we, when we retire or thinking about retirement, why can’t we have this gap year.00:21:54.450 –> 00:22:10.399
and why can’t we use that time to explore? Well, that idea was a good idea, but probably not as practical. But what I did choose was then, okay, use this distinguished leaders year, 9 month program that I was in to say, explore all the things you can explore.00:22:10.630 –> 00:22:26.259
And I did that. And what I discovered is, as I said, I really valued my previous skills and decided to say, retirement is a place that it’s such an energizing situation right now. It’s exploding. People need help.00:22:26.550 –> 00:22:36.030
And so I’ve read about 40 books about retirement. I’ve gone to a number of outside classes on retirement.00:22:36.080 –> 00:22:50.359
I’ve listened to podcasts on retirement. And I have just started my certification to become a retirement lifestyle coach. So so the steps are research explore00:22:50.360 –> 00:23:12.649
because I looked at a couple of other things, but they didn’t quite resonate with me, and one of the other great things I found is my colleagues in the program. We could talk about lots of different things, and they were all exploring. So I think exploring is one of the things. Find out what resonates with you. Find out where your energy lies, because one of the things about purpose and commitment is.00:23:12.650 –> 00:23:16.080
if it doesn’t energize. You. Don’t do it.00:23:17.150 –> 00:23:26.739
Yeah, fair enough. That’s right. I have to tell students that the thing that you find yourself doing when no one’s looking, that’s the thing you actually are passionate about. So if you find yourself.00:23:27.030 –> 00:23:34.680
you know, reading the books on retirement, listening to the podcast on retirement, taking the classes, like all those concrete steps. That’s that’s your passion.00:23:35.270 –> 00:23:35.660
Kamy Akhavan: and.00:23:35.660 –> 00:23:45.019
RoJean DeChantal: I really really have enjoyed. I think I enjoyed the learning. And then, to be honest, it’s some self help. Besides, because I are in it.00:23:45.380 –> 00:24:10.230
Kamy Akhavan: Fair enough, and the Gap year concept love that so, Felicia, you sort of had a gap year right? Sort of, because you were also part of the distinguished leaders program, and I know it was not a tiny time commitment. It was a real commitment. And I wonder for you, then, in this transition period. Going back to this concrete steps. Idea that. How do you?00:24:10.230 –> 00:24:18.360
Kamy Akhavan: How did you think about what steps to take? And how did you know those were the right steps. And what were those steps as you think about00:24:18.510 –> 00:24:33.900
Kamy Akhavan: the Felicia who’s not a full time high powered tech consultant. And now you’re Felicia who is helping kids with mental health issues in these innovative ways. What were those steps that you’ve taken? And how did you think about it?00:24:34.360 –> 00:25:02.299
Felicia Schwartz: So I never stopped the consulting. It was an add On so and which was fine. My children are out of the house. So I have time, and but I think what you said earlier. It was something I wanted to do. So it got exciting. So I treated this as a like a product I would have done for a client. But again, who my clients were, were different, and it did motivate me. So I did a lot of market research initially talking to people to understand.00:25:02.640 –> 00:25:19.460
Felicia Schwartz: Here’s an idea. Do you think it’s good? And I probably spoke with about 60 people in different facets. And it’s funny because I was originally talking about this concept about children helping children. And the more I spoke with people00:25:19.460 –> 00:25:42.399
Felicia Schwartz: it expanded to say this could help, you know elderly people, too, because, seniors, you know, we’re talking about retiring. But think about the older people who are in nursing homes, or they’re lonely, too. So the concept of loneliness. I think I spent a lot of time learning about that. And then I needed to kind of take a step back and take all my research and say, Okay, I have to start somewhere00:25:42.400 –> 00:26:08.049
Felicia Schwartz: in the tech world as the minimum viable product concept where I need to get something out the door, and it’s going to be more complicated because I won’t let like an AI like Chat Gpt, go in there and just answer something because you’re talking to people, and you have to be really careful. So I started coming up with, like the steps I have to take. And the Usc. Program really helped me in both my career and my consulting company, because I had never like00:26:08.050 –> 00:26:30.620
Felicia Schwartz: run my own company before. So I have to say, everybody there, help me with that part and and working it together. But it was also, how do I put together this product? Brief? Do I need investors, or can I? You know, fund this on my own? How do I get started? What do I have to do? How do I get other people involved. Who do? I need to get involved? And so it really helped me to kind of00:26:30.900 –> 00:26:34.510
Felicia Schwartz: put something on paper to make it more concrete to move forward with.00:26:35.020 –> 00:26:35.355
Kamy Akhavan: Yeah.00:26:35.900 –> 00:27:00.340
Felicia Schwartz: One of the things is the people, and and we haven’t tapped into like Regina has been amazing. But I think everybody in this program was wonderful. The unexpected surprise about this is, we have people from very different backgrounds, all extremely bright, extremely motivated, to make the next chapters in their life something meaningful, and to learn from their perspectives of00:27:00.400 –> 00:27:21.900
Felicia Schwartz: what they’ve done, how they’ve done. It wasn’t something I came in expecting to get, but just and and just the group meets still. Now, once a month, even though the program is over, we still meet regularly, because we really do can give each other feedback, and we could take everybody else’s learning experience and tap it into what we’re going to do in the future.00:27:22.860 –> 00:27:27.741
Kamy Akhavan: Yeah, I see you nodding your head. Regine. This this sort of reinvention cohort.00:27:28.090 –> 00:27:28.840
RoJean DeChantal: Yes.00:27:28.950 –> 00:27:30.240
Kamy Akhavan: Yes, there.00:27:31.400 –> 00:27:54.770
Kamy Akhavan: I wanted to go back to you, Felicia, real quick, because you are consulting still because you got to pay the bills, and that’s a way to make ends meet. And I’m looking here at some stats that show 46% of Americans, aged 60 to 75, plan to work part time during their retirement and 32%. So about a 3rd00:27:54.770 –> 00:28:16.559
Kamy Akhavan: have 0 retirement savings. So I imagine there’s financial pressures. It’s not just. Oh, I have all this leisure time, and I’m going to think, no, you have to balance the finances and those harsh realities with the purpose side of it. And I’m wondering for you. How do you think about that balance? How much of it is? Financial stress versus00:28:16.560 –> 00:28:18.330
Kamy Akhavan: oh, big picture purpose.00:28:18.660 –> 00:28:31.570
Felicia Schwartz: So the 1st year of starting this process, so really in 2030 is when I had this concept idea like when AI really, when generative AI became out. That’s when this idea popped into me, and it took a year to say like.00:28:31.920 –> 00:28:34.120
Felicia Schwartz: Can I sacrifice?00:28:34.580 –> 00:28:50.629
Felicia Schwartz: You know, an income? Because consulting and starting, consulting firm. You’re also not bringing in income for a while. Doing that. I’m lucky my husband still works, so we do have half the income still coming in. But it really. I sat down. I have00:28:50.630 –> 00:29:10.940
Felicia Schwartz: become a certified financial planner, so I could handle matter. I don’t. I don’t practice it, but I have the certification. So I looked at my numbers and came up with a budget to say, what’s most important to me. The idea, you know when I trusted my instincts about the idea of going back and getting another job. I could do that. I’d probably be fine doing that.00:29:11.440 –> 00:29:14.459
Felicia Schwartz: But unless I got something in a very different field.00:29:14.680 –> 00:29:32.629
Felicia Schwartz: I don’t think I would have been satisfied. I think I was finally at a point in my life. All the mentors. I had have retired, so I didn’t have a mentor continuously working now in the field. I was mentors, and it was just, you see, so many people saying, I’ve had enough.00:29:32.840 –> 00:30:02.740
Felicia Schwartz: I didn’t want to get that. I’ve had enough feeling. I needed to change it up to say so. You know we live on a budget. I’ve always lived on a budget. So it was kind of like, you just watch like, what’s more important, like fancy vacations and new cars, or whatever versus the feeling I get in myself, knowing I could have an impact. And you know what I think you get to a point when you’re in your twenties, things matter a lot. When you’re in your thirties, you have family to take care of. Then you have college. You get to a point like00:30:02.830 –> 00:30:21.090
Felicia Schwartz: what’s what’s most valuable to you, and you know both my husband and I are at a point where, like the things we needed, you know. Fortunately our home is paid off. Our kids are out of the house, so like we don’t have these major expenses, everything. And this was more important than the income I was bringing.00:30:22.040 –> 00:30:43.219
Felicia Schwartz: and that’s why I had to do it. But I still have the other money coming in from the consulting, but I’m hoping that what I earn from that I can put towards funding the product so that we could continue to live off of one income. And then this goes away that I could just fund the product without having to take out any loans against it, for it.00:30:43.750 –> 00:31:06.339
Kamy Akhavan: I see. I see that’s a great plan and great plan. And I’m curious for you, Regina. I mean, you’ve advised a lot of people at this point in their lives about just the realities of where they are financially, whether they can live on a budget like Felicia can, and whether or not, there’s any retirement savings. And all these financial considerations, which is a big stressor versus the00:31:06.340 –> 00:31:19.609
Kamy Akhavan: what I really want to do with my life. I’m not going to live forever. And so what are the things that are really, really valuable to me? And I’m just wondering how you how do you think about that balance between the paying the bills and00:31:19.610 –> 00:31:21.179
Kamy Akhavan: achieving the purpose.00:31:22.472 –> 00:31:30.889
RoJean DeChantal: Well, one of the things that is probably the 2 questions that people ask 1st when they’re thinking about retiring family is.00:31:31.810 –> 00:31:43.340
RoJean DeChantal: do I have enough savings, or do I have enough income, or do I have enough ideas about part-time work, or whatever it is? I’m going to do so. In other words, they have to think about their financial world.00:31:43.430 –> 00:32:01.949
RoJean DeChantal: The second part is, what’s my health? So finance and health are the 2 balancing points, and they’re the foundation, really, for retirement. So people who are saying, I’m going to work. But I have some people that I’ve talked to say I’m never going to retire.00:32:02.140 –> 00:32:17.290
RoJean DeChantal: Why? Because I have either a career or a skill or a capability, and that’s what I’ve decided my life is going to be. Is that piece of my work is part of me, and I want to continue it.00:32:17.420 –> 00:32:22.099
RoJean DeChantal: So I do think there is a balance. But those 2 are the foundational pieces.00:32:22.250 –> 00:32:47.560
RoJean DeChantal: and when I talk to people, and they say, Gee! I’d like to retire, but I don’t have any savings, or I’d like to retire, but I don’t mind. I’ve got this and this and this wrong with me physically. Then I say, Okay, let’s start there because you can always start someplace and say, what is it that you think you need to retire? How important is that? Because I think I agree with Felicia in that, as we age.00:32:47.640 –> 00:33:10.939
RoJean DeChantal: our ideas change about what’s important to us. Our ideas change about some people choose to retire because things are happening in their family. There’s new grandchildren, and they want to go there, so I don’t want to avoid the idea of the finance, but it is a balance, and you really have to. As Felicia said, you really have to think about what’s important to me. How do I pay the bills?00:33:11.710 –> 00:33:15.460
RoJean DeChantal: And and then, once you decide, can I retire00:33:15.760 –> 00:33:21.059
RoJean DeChantal: or work part time till I’m 75, then is my health going to carry me through?00:33:21.310 –> 00:33:40.929
RoJean DeChantal: So I look at. And when I talk to people, I look at those 2 things. Those are the foundations, because all the other stuff, whether I explore purpose, whether I want to volunteer, whether I want to travel, whether I want to be a mentor. All of those depend on. Do I have enough to economic value to get me through?00:33:41.040 –> 00:33:43.350
RoJean DeChantal: And do I have enough health to get me through.00:33:44.550 –> 00:34:02.760
Kamy Akhavan: So much wisdom, Regina. I really am captivated by your insights here, because it’s getting my brain to go in so many different directions, and one of the things that I wanted to follow up with you about really was just this concept of00:34:02.930 –> 00:34:10.749
Kamy Akhavan: what does it really mean to retire? I’m thinking about us companies. And I’m hearing about more and more and more of them where they recognize that00:34:10.750 –> 00:34:34.709
Kamy Akhavan: having just young people in the office because they’re less expensive than some of the older folks. That’s not necessarily a good thing in and of itself you need a blended workplace, and so some people who are, rather than leaving the door in their sixties. They’re saying, Can you stick around? But in a reduced capacity, maybe instead of the 40 plus hours a week. Maybe it’s 20 HA week. But just to be mentors, and share wisdom and insight and experience and00:34:34.739 –> 00:34:44.349
Kamy Akhavan: and resiliency, and all these other things that we can bring in a in our later years, and and that those kinds of companies perform better. Their bottom lines are stronger.00:34:44.350 –> 00:34:44.840
RoJean DeChantal: Okay.00:34:44.840 –> 00:35:10.450
Kamy Akhavan: And rather than this cliff of retirement. Now we’ve talked about it before. It’s maybe more of a ramp, and I wonder how you kind of think about how you think about that. These sort of blended workplaces, and the idea of retirement isn’t really stopping retirement is a transition. Retirement is a reinvention. And how you think about that.00:35:10.680 –> 00:35:12.890
RoJean DeChantal: Well, oh.00:35:13.000 –> 00:35:33.170
RoJean DeChantal: I think the term, I think sometimes we get caught up in this term. Retirement, as we talked about earlier retirement is a transition. It’s a way to say what I’ve been doing all this time. Whether I’m now can’t get excited on Sunday night, when I go to work, whether it’s I have other things happening. I would like to have00:35:33.520 –> 00:35:43.900
RoJean DeChantal: more leisure time. I’d like to explore something more. Then I begin to think about, and that’s why I always say to people, if you can, you should be thinking 3 to 5 years out.00:35:44.180 –> 00:36:11.410
RoJean DeChantal: you know, because if you think 3 to 5 years out. You’re not dropped into retirement. You’re not. That cliff doesn’t happen. You’ve given this some thought, and that’s where it’s really important. When I’m talking to couples. How do both of them think about that? And so it’s great when companies and there are more and more of them that are doing that. But it’s great when I can approach the company, or the company can approach me and say, Look.00:36:11.550 –> 00:36:29.840
RoJean DeChantal: I’d really like to have less time. I’d like to work part-time, or I’d really like to mentor or I want to leave. But would you hire me back on a contract basis? Because that’s also that’s what’s happening is, people will be hired back on a contract basis because they can’t afford to have the wisdom walk out the door.00:36:30.370 –> 00:36:33.929
RoJean DeChantal: and that’s good for me, and it’s also good for for them.00:36:34.010 –> 00:36:44.269
RoJean DeChantal: So I think the ramping and the how do I want to walk myself into this world of reinvention? I can plan it better.00:36:44.330 –> 00:37:11.620
RoJean DeChantal: And that’s part of my responsibility, I think, as a person is. How do I think about this? 3 to 5 years in advance instead of the cliff. Now, Felicia and I’ve talked about it with a lot of layoffs that are happening and a lot of older people are being laid off. I agree that sometimes we get dropped into it. And I do know, in talking to many, many people, including some of the friends you’ve been talking to is that that first, st it takes about 2 years.00:37:12.810 –> 00:37:36.919
RoJean DeChantal: Tammy, to really to really say, what kind of routines and rhythms am I developing for myself? What kinds of structure do I have? Because we all need that? How do I get my social interaction? How do I keep my physical wellness going? It almost takes 2 years to get a rhythm of. I’m here, but those 2 years are what they call the messy middle.00:37:37.150 –> 00:37:50.529
RoJean DeChantal: But that’s why I really ask people to think about, because there’s lots of ramps. There are lots of ramps, but we have to be thinking about them and plan for them, and sometimes we have to initiate them.00:37:51.530 –> 00:37:57.289
Kamy Akhavan: Yeah, I hear in the 3 to 5 year, I’m thinking, knowing there will be a messy middle. Transitions are always tough.00:37:57.390 –> 00:38:24.160
Kamy Akhavan: I talk to students all the time, like, well, I’m not sure what I do when I graduate. Yeah, I really don’t know. And I get it that those transitions are tough. I’m looking at the questions that we have coming in the Q. And a. Here, and what this one’s for you, Felicia. So if you don’t mind. I just wanted to throw it at you. And this person is wondering what is the product? What is this thing that you’re developing? They’re eager to learn more about it. So can you tell us, what is this?00:38:24.640 –> 00:38:25.820
Kamy Akhavan: What have you been working on.00:38:26.479 –> 00:38:49.240
Felicia Schwartz: So I call it Bailey, and Bailey is a dog that I unfortunately, I lost recently. But and look, he’s a rescue dog, but he looked like a golden retriever, and he’s all fluffy. And what I learned through just life. And then a lot of the research that I did is one of the things that kids from the time they’re born, even to when they’re adults.00:38:49.240 –> 00:38:57.620
Felicia Schwartz: gets comfort from our stuffed animals. So using belly as a prototype. It’s the idea of using the technology00:38:57.720 –> 00:39:24.270
Felicia Schwartz: in something that’s not a phone to give a child comfort if they come home from school, for instance, and say, You know my friends didn’t play with me on the on the playground today, and they wouldn’t let me. You know they ignored me right. Something that children go through, and while it seems as adults, it’s just part of life it can be really devastating. And if a child comes home and say their parents aren’t there? And they’re with a babysitter and the Babysitter’s doing stuff.00:39:24.540 –> 00:39:40.930
Felicia Schwartz: They go through their own head. And again, if you go on social media and kids as young as 10 years old. They’re on some of these, you know, apps or online, or even group text they need something to help them with, and if they don’t have it something to just kind of. Say, you know what00:39:40.950 –> 00:39:58.999
Felicia Schwartz: you didn’t do anything wrong, and tomorrow they’ll be your friend like just. And and I’m making up answers. But this is where a lot of my time is being spent. What’s the right information to give to give people back because you don’t want to say something that’s, you know, wrong00:39:59.330 –> 00:40:29.049
Felicia Schwartz: that cause more damage. But it’s really to like, how do we get the kids off the phones, and something that comforts them. Stuffed animal naturally comforts them. But if we could take that stuff animal and make it more responsive to the tone of the voice, the expression on a face to really give them comfort and be able to be able to say, Kami, you look sad today is everything. Okay? So that there’s a sense of there’s something there, and that something that could detect that if something looks really bad, it can notify a parent or a trusted adult?00:40:29.473 –> 00:40:32.439
Felicia Schwartz: So that’s that’s the idea behind it.00:40:32.620 –> 00:40:50.058
Kamy Akhavan: It’s so. I mean, I want this. I don’t know. Want this in their lives. It’s like having the most responsive emotional support thing in the palm of your hands. And it’s fluffy and and it’s it’s feel so personal. And it’s not a phone.00:40:50.400 –> 00:40:51.990
Felicia Schwartz: It’s a key thing. It’s not a phone.00:40:51.990 –> 00:40:52.790
RoJean DeChantal: That’s okay.00:40:52.960 –> 00:41:08.040
Kamy Akhavan: Yeah, it’s I imagine. I mean, it’s a wonderful idea. I imagine, that there’s a there’s gonna be a a huge appetite for something like this like you mentioned, not just with kids, but with with seniors, I mean with anybody, anybody. I guess you got to start somewhere. And so you’re starting.00:41:08.850 –> 00:41:28.089
Felicia Schwartz: It’s funny you say that about seniors. When I’ve met with one of the women I’m working with. She used to run nursing homes and assisted living during Covid. She’s taking a little bit of a Sabbatical just because of the toll it took on her with Covid in New York with so many people, you know, passing, and she said00:41:28.170 –> 00:41:48.839
Felicia Schwartz: people need that if they’re in assisted living families don’t get it was exacerbated during Covid families couldn’t go visit their seniors, but for giving them something that they could give them comfort and combat. The loneliness. She was the one that brought it up to me like this would be a good idea for all of those patients. So the loneliness thing is major factor, and00:41:48.840 –> 00:41:58.199
Felicia Schwartz: you know how to help it. There’s so many ways in person is always the best. But if there’s other ways when you can’t have that in person as a backup, you know, I hope this can help.00:41:58.420 –> 00:42:23.250
Kamy Akhavan: Absolutely. We have an epidemic of loneliness, not just in this country, but globally. And our Surgeon General has said so. It’s a literal epidemic. So good on here for this, and this is the Bailey tool. I’ll be keeping my eyes peeled for this to recommend it. We have a question from Jerry, who is asking, is the session being recorded? Yes, it is being recorded. It will be available on the website of the Usc. Distinguished leaders program.00:42:23.250 –> 00:42:33.650
Kamy Akhavan: So you can capture it there, and then send it to your brother, who apparently is retiring soon, and so wishing him a smooth transition. And so a question for you, Rojin, which is.00:42:33.650 –> 00:42:35.400
Kamy Akhavan: you are00:42:35.450 –> 00:42:50.079
Kamy Akhavan: the most knowledgeable person that I have ever met in terms of life, transitions, and and retirement. And so you are going into this as a full time focus and and feature. And00:42:50.160 –> 00:43:00.819
Kamy Akhavan: that’s wonderful. So if someone wants to lean on your knowledge and wisdom and benefit from your advice. How would they go about doing that?00:43:02.387 –> 00:43:08.450
RoJean DeChantal: I can. I don’t have a a chat, but I can certainly. I’m on Linkedin00:43:08.590 –> 00:43:14.460
RoJean DeChantal: and under Regine de Chantelle, and they can certainly message me on Linkedin, happy to help.00:43:14.770 –> 00:43:34.479
Kamy Akhavan: Message on Linkedin. Okay, okay, I’ll sign up for that. We’ve only got about 1 min left of time here, so I just wanted to kick it over to each one of you to see if you have any final parting thoughts for us about either, and it can be whatever you want either your experience with the Usc distinguished leaders program, or some00:43:34.480 –> 00:43:46.709
Kamy Akhavan: something you want to leave our audience with about what it is that you have really learned about this phase of your life, and how you’re thinking about the future, and whoever wants to go 1st go for it.00:43:47.438 –> 00:43:57.210
RoJean DeChantal: I’ll I’ll go. I guess I was thinking about this, because it’s it’s almost not asking what you should do next. But what makes you feel most alive.00:43:57.420 –> 00:44:10.610
RoJean DeChantal: What makes you feel most energized and don’t just go what I did from the past, even though I used some of that use? What makes you passionate use? What makes you energized? Because this is your time?00:44:13.580 –> 00:44:23.640
Felicia Schwartz: Yeah. So I’m going to say what I loved about this program, what you taught us, cami, what we learned, but also find, I would suggest to people find a group.00:44:24.103 –> 00:44:29.866
Felicia Schwartz: a cohort, your new crowd that can work with you on this because00:44:30.310 –> 00:44:43.600
Felicia Schwartz: not everybody in your social world is going to stay, or is going to be going through this when you’re going through it. I think it’s really it’s been beneficial to me to have other people who are having the same thoughts about what next.00:44:43.600 –> 00:45:02.640
Felicia Schwartz: and are thinking about that versus people who maybe have retired. And they’re just doing whatever they’re doing or years away, and don’t want to think about it. Having a group that you could kind of work with and be a support group for you. That’s crucial. That’s why we started the alumni after the program. Really, the program really00:45:02.660 –> 00:45:12.570
Felicia Schwartz: afforded us the opportunity to really like get to know each other and become friends and a support team. So I would suggest people make sure you have that. It’s been very helpful.00:45:12.990 –> 00:45:26.650
Kamy Akhavan: Wonderful parting words of wisdom. Thank you so much for it to all of you who are joining us live today. Thank you for joining us today. If you’re watching this on recorded video, thank you for watching. If you’d like more information, you found out how to stay in touch with both00:45:26.650 –> 00:45:50.449
Kamy Akhavan: Felicia Schwartz by looking out for Bailey in the marketplace, originally going to young children. If you want to support that project, I’m sure you could find Felicia, as well on Linkedin and Rogine, has offered her Linkedin as a way of contacting her for anyone wanting to think more broadly about their life transitions. If the Usc distinguished leaders program may be useful to you. Their website is00:45:50.450 –> 00:45:55.310
Kamy Akhavan: Google Usc distinguished leaders program. And you can see what it’s all about. And00:45:56.030 –> 00:46:07.959
Kamy Akhavan: as best of luck with these transitions to anybody going through it, wishing you all the best. Thank you so much for sharing your insights and wisdom with us today. We’re grateful for it and excited about what the next chapter looks like.00:46:08.570 –> 00:46:08.950
RoJean DeChantal: You can.00:46:08.950 –> 00:46:10.430
RoJean DeChantal: I mean yes.
Housing, Dignity and the Future of the Middle Class
Date: July 16, 2025
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00:00:04.605 –> 00:00:07.795
Hello, and welcome to Housing Dignity00:00:08.335 –> 00:00:10.675
and the Future of the Middle Class.00:00:13.865 –> 00:00:15.715
It’s a virtual conversation brought to you00:00:15.715 –> 00:00:17.635
by the USC Distinguished Leaders Program.00:00:18.495 –> 00:00:20.035
My name is Kamy Akhavan,00:00:20.215 –> 00:00:21.595
and I have the privilege of serving00:00:21.855 –> 00:00:24.115
as an instructor in the Distinguished Leaders Program.00:00:24.935 –> 00:00:27.875
I’m also the managing director of the USC Dornsife Center00:00:27.975 –> 00:00:29.075
for the Political Future,00:00:29.335 –> 00:00:32.315
and I was formerly the CEO of procon.org.00:00:33.105 –> 00:00:35.275
Today’s the first conversation in a series00:00:35.745 –> 00:00:38.315
that explores the bold ideas00:00:38.615 –> 00:00:41.195
and purposeful actions from senior leaders00:00:41.655 –> 00:00:44.195
who are redefining their next chapter of life.00:00:45.265 –> 00:00:46.715
I’ll be moderating the conversation00:00:46.975 –> 00:00:49.395
and joining me as co-moderator is my good friend,00:00:50.075 –> 00:00:51.115
distinguished leader, advisor,00:00:51.655 –> 00:00:53.955
and acclaimed international business consultant, Mr.00:00:53.955 –> 00:00:56.795
Julian Hurst. Julian, if you don’t mind,00:00:56.795 –> 00:00:58.275
could you please briefly tell our audience00:00:58.465 –> 00:01:02.755
what the Distinguished Leaders Program is for some context00:01:02.975 –> 00:01:05.275
before we begin our broader conversation?00:01:06.685 –> 00:01:09.335
Yeah. Thank you Kamy. Uh, and welcome everyone.00:01:09.515 –> 00:01:14.135
Um, so the Distinguished Leaders Program, uh, is designed00:01:14.655 –> 00:01:18.815
specifically for, um, leaders in, in the second half of life00:01:18.995 –> 00:01:23.415
who are looking to navigate the complexity of00:01:23.605 –> 00:01:25.495
that transition, um,00:01:25.755 –> 00:01:30.415
and looking for, um, redefined purpose, uh,00:01:30.435 –> 00:01:32.055
as they think about what comes next.00:01:32.395 –> 00:01:35.135
Um, we ask, uh, questions00:01:35.685 –> 00:01:40.095
that dig deep into, um, our autobiography,00:01:40.325 –> 00:01:42.495
what made us the leaders that we are today.00:01:43.075 –> 00:01:46.775
Um, and with a diverse cohort of senior executives,00:01:46.775 –> 00:01:49.175
senior leaders who join us, we’re able00:01:49.175 –> 00:01:52.015
to triangulate those conversations from many,00:01:52.085 –> 00:01:53.775
many different perspectives that we’re able00:01:53.775 –> 00:01:57.255
to challenge together, uh, so that we work towards clarity.00:01:57.795 –> 00:02:01.295
Um, and we sharpen the idea of impact, um,00:02:01.835 –> 00:02:03.335
in the, the years ahead of us.00:02:03.435 –> 00:02:05.775
Uh, whether that’s impact through an organization,00:02:05.805 –> 00:02:08.495
through a community, um, or,00:02:08.515 –> 00:02:10.295
or something even much broader than that.00:02:10.395 –> 00:02:14.175
So, um, what we, what we aim to do over the course00:02:14.175 –> 00:02:16.335
of the program, uh, is have, uh,00:02:16.335 –> 00:02:18.855
participants our cohort work with faculty,00:02:19.165 –> 00:02:21.215
with subject matter experts and,00:02:21.235 –> 00:02:23.255
and also each other, importantly each other,00:02:23.955 –> 00:02:27.815
to explore their own personal journeys, um, the kinds00:02:27.815 –> 00:02:30.415
of change that they want to see in the world,00:02:30.475 –> 00:02:33.615
and how they will shape their role in that change.00:02:34.155 –> 00:02:38.215
And also the evolving role of leaders, uh, in the kinds00:02:38.215 –> 00:02:40.255
of worlds that we are part of.00:02:40.475 –> 00:02:44.775
Um, it’s a, it’s a program that, uh, is rich in content, uh,00:02:44.775 –> 00:02:46.015
and also in relationships.00:02:46.475 –> 00:02:49.015
Uh, and again, we’re looking to shape something meaningful,00:02:49.115 –> 00:02:52.535
um, purposeful and concrete, tangible for, uh,00:02:52.535 –> 00:02:53.815
everybody’s next stage.00:02:54.905 –> 00:02:57.325
Uh, you did that brilliantly. Thank you for that.00:02:57.545 –> 00:02:59.445
The, the whole idea of going back to school00:02:59.705 –> 00:03:03.525
to focus on social impact is a, is a wonderful ideal00:03:03.665 –> 00:03:05.925
and applaud the Distinguished Leaders00:03:05.925 –> 00:03:07.085
Program for that focus.00:03:07.585 –> 00:03:09.285
Uh, with that context, I want00:03:09.285 –> 00:03:11.125
to introduce our two special guests for today00:03:11.425 –> 00:03:14.765
who will help us understand our specific topic of discussion00:03:14.765 –> 00:03:17.805
for today, and why there is a powerful need00:03:17.985 –> 00:03:21.645
for workforce housing, what workforce housing even means,00:03:22.225 –> 00:03:25.965
and how our guests today recommend shaping policy00:03:26.345 –> 00:03:29.205
and guiding businesses to make housing affordable,00:03:29.575 –> 00:03:32.565
especially for first responders, teachers,00:03:32.665 –> 00:03:34.965
and critical members of a community’s infrastructure.00:03:37.215 –> 00:03:40.675
So, with that said, I want to introduce John00:03:41.195 –> 00:03:42.435
Rockford, my friend.00:03:42.625 –> 00:03:45.475
With a career spanning decades in the construction industry,00:03:45.505 –> 00:03:48.075
John Rockford has demonstrated exceptional leadership00:03:48.135 –> 00:03:49.395
and a commitment to innovation.00:03:49.975 –> 00:03:51.355
As a USC distinguished Leader,00:03:51.355 –> 00:03:53.315
he’s focused on building vibrant communities00:03:53.575 –> 00:03:56.355
and expanding access to affordable home ownership00:03:56.355 –> 00:03:59.355
for the Orange County workforce, including first responders,00:04:00.035 –> 00:04:02.555
ensuring sustainable and inclusive development.00:04:03.825 –> 00:04:05.635
Welcome, John. Thank you.00:04:06.295 –> 00:04:10.715
And joining us as well is colleague00:04:10.715 –> 00:04:13.635
of mine here at USC, very acclaimed instructor,00:04:13.865 –> 00:04:15.475
professor Samuel Masano.00:04:15.545 –> 00:04:17.915
He’s a clinical associate professor of social work00:04:18.425 –> 00:04:21.115
with a longtime focus on creating affordable housing,00:04:21.375 –> 00:04:22.995
having worked in leadership00:04:23.055 –> 00:04:24.635
for the Jamboree Housing Corporation,00:04:24.655 –> 00:04:27.555
the Southern California Association of Nonprofit Housing,00:04:28.015 –> 00:04:29.555
and as a senior project manager00:04:29.855 –> 00:04:33.315
for the Los Angeles Unified School District when it was00:04:33.315 –> 00:04:36.395
developing its successful workforce housing initiative.00:04:36.975 –> 00:04:38.155
So, gentlemen, thank you so much00:04:38.155 –> 00:04:39.515
for joining our audience today.00:04:39.565 –> 00:04:41.875
We’ll talk for about 30 minutes or so,00:04:41.895 –> 00:04:43.715
and then take some questions from the audience.00:04:43.975 –> 00:04:45.955
So audience members, if you have questions00:04:45.955 –> 00:04:47.035
and have joined us live today,00:04:47.255 –> 00:04:52.035
please put your questions in the q and a of this zoom.00:04:52.895 –> 00:04:55.795
Uh, so my first question, if I can, I wanna start with you,00:04:55.795 –> 00:05:00.195
John, which is to ask why this topic of workforce housing?00:05:00.335 –> 00:05:01.795
Why this topic? Why now?00:05:04.525 –> 00:05:07.935
Well, the, the workforce housing that I’m focused on is00:05:07.965 –> 00:05:09.375
what I call moderate income.00:05:09.635 –> 00:05:11.935
So it’s the group that earns, uh,00:05:11.935 –> 00:05:13.895
what they call a MI average, uh,00:05:13.895 –> 00:05:16.815
medium income from about 81%00:05:16.815 –> 00:05:19.535
through about one 20 in the state of California.00:05:19.605 –> 00:05:21.295
It’s kind of divine defined as that.00:05:21.675 –> 00:05:25.415
And that picks up mostly people who, uh, are working, uh,00:05:25.485 –> 00:05:28.215
have salaries, they have jobs, um,00:05:28.475 –> 00:05:30.775
but they don’t qualify for low income housing00:05:31.055 –> 00:05:32.855
’cause they’re, they’re above that threshold.00:05:33.555 –> 00:05:37.175
And, um, they’re basically, um, kind of,00:05:37.295 –> 00:05:39.775
I would say frozen out of the real estate market00:05:39.775 –> 00:05:42.695
because they don’t earn enough to buy homes in the,00:05:42.795 –> 00:05:45.055
in the areas that they serve.00:05:45.195 –> 00:05:47.255
So we’re talking, let’s talk Orange County.00:05:47.995 –> 00:05:51.415
So home in Orange County averages about 1.2 million.00:05:52.475 –> 00:05:56.415
Uh, home in Riverside County averages about 600,000.00:05:56.475 –> 00:05:58.085
So there’s a factor or two there.00:05:58.585 –> 00:06:00.645
So a lot of these, uh, firemen00:05:00.705 –> 00:06:04.045
and teachers, uh, police, uh,00:06:04.275 –> 00:06:06.165
what we’ll call essential workers, nurses,00:06:06.835 –> 00:06:10.845
they find themselves having to, to, to live, uh, in,00:06:10.985 –> 00:06:12.205
in the outlying counties,00:06:13.305 –> 00:06:16.085
but serve us here in Orange County.00:06:16.605 –> 00:06:19.685
I find that to be kind of, uh, unfortunate and,00:06:19.685 –> 00:06:21.285
and I feel that, um,00:06:21.615 –> 00:06:24.005
we’re getting into a haves versus have nots.00:06:24.065 –> 00:06:26.645
And, and, and it just doesn’t feel good when I know people00:06:26.645 –> 00:06:29.085
that are serving us don’t live amongst us,00:06:29.085 –> 00:06:30.125
and they don’t go to our schools.00:06:30.125 –> 00:06:31.965
They don’t enjoy the benefits00:06:31.965 –> 00:06:34.285
of the very communities they serve and protect.00:06:34.785 –> 00:06:38.125
So I thought, uh, this was a good time to use some00:06:38.125 –> 00:06:41.525
of my expertise that I’ve had in building facilities and,00:06:41.625 –> 00:06:43.885
and, uh, and, uh, a model00:06:43.915 –> 00:06:45.805
that I’ve seen work with other clients.00:06:45.945 –> 00:06:48.365
And I’d like to bring that to the focus on these projects.00:06:48.675 –> 00:06:50.085
Yeah. Well, appreciate that context.00:06:50.265 –> 00:06:54.005
And if I can, I wanna ask you, uh, Sam, do you agree with00:06:54.005 –> 00:06:57.245
that framing of why workforce housing is so important now?00:06:57.385 –> 00:07:00.005
And can you help us understand even what, what is it?00:07:01.225 –> 00:07:05.275
Yeah, I agree fully with John’s framing, uh,00:07:05.535 –> 00:07:08.235
and wanting to, uh, put a slightly00:07:08.745 –> 00:07:10.435
more specific point on it.00:07:11.105 –> 00:07:14.675
There’s, and I focus on LA County, um,00:07:15.215 –> 00:07:17.115
and this is the same on all counties,00:07:17.115 –> 00:07:19.755
everywhere in the country, including California.00:07:20.265 –> 00:07:24.115
There’s many, many large employers that employ tens00:07:24.115 –> 00:07:28.355
of thousands of people at a wide range of salaries00:07:28.815 –> 00:07:31.155
and, uh, hourly wages.00:07:31.815 –> 00:07:34.395
And a lot of those employers also own00:07:34.655 –> 00:07:36.715
or have long-term leases on land.00:07:37.415 –> 00:07:40.835
And yet, as John mentioned, thousands00:07:40.935 –> 00:07:44.515
of these workers can’t afford to live near where they work.00:07:45.015 –> 00:07:48.195
So especially when it comes to police officers00:07:48.195 –> 00:07:51.355
and firefighters who earn decent money,00:07:51.575 –> 00:07:54.675
but the staff that works for the police department,00:07:54.675 –> 00:07:56.395
fire department does not.00:07:56.455 –> 00:07:59.475
And that’s certainly the same for all these school districts00:07:59.475 –> 00:08:01.675
where sometimes teachers,00:08:01.675 –> 00:08:03.035
especially if they’ve been there a long time,00:08:03.145 –> 00:08:04.875
earn solid salaries,00:08:05.295 –> 00:08:08.435
but then there’s still half the employees who do not00:08:08.575 –> 00:08:10.835
and cannot live near where they work.00:08:11.455 –> 00:08:14.115
Um, and so we’ll probably get into it,00:08:14.175 –> 00:08:17.395
but I spent, uh, several years at L-A-U-S-D00:08:18.155 –> 00:08:20.475
creating their workforce housing initiative00:08:20.535 –> 00:08:23.155
to create some housing, rental housing00:08:23.575 –> 00:08:25.155
for their lower income workers.00:08:25.455 –> 00:08:28.955
Mm-hmm. Of which they employ 30,000 of them.00:08:30.775 –> 00:08:32.555
Uh, it’s a, a, a huge number,00:08:32.975 –> 00:08:35.315
and I know for many people who are, who are listening00:08:35.315 –> 00:08:37.555
to this conversation, they might be thinking, well, look,00:08:37.795 –> 00:08:40.115
I can’t afford to live near my work either.00:08:40.315 –> 00:08:42.115
I have to commute, I have these stretches.00:08:42.415 –> 00:08:47.395
Um, can you talk specifically about why first responders,00:08:47.395 –> 00:08:51.195
nurses, teachers, why that particular workforce, why it’s00:08:51.195 –> 00:08:53.115
so important for them to be near the00:08:53.115 –> 00:08:54.155
places that they’re working?00:08:54.305 –> 00:08:56.245
What, what is different about that workforce?00:08:57.465 –> 00:08:58.965
Do you want me to answer that one? Please?00:08:58.965 –> 00:09:00.325
Yeah, why don’t you kick us. I, I’ll,00:08:01.585 –> 00:09:06.005
I’ll give you an example.00:09:06.005 –> 00:09:07.365
Um, when Santa Barbara had their flood a few years ago,00:09:07.365 –> 00:09:10.605
back, I think it was 2008,00:09:10.605 –> 00:09:13.765
somewhere in there about January, 2008, the city00:09:13.765 –> 00:09:16.405
of Santa Barbara realized at that point that 80%00:09:13.765 –> 00:09:16.405
of their fire, their police force worked outside00:09:16.405 –> 00:09:19.085
of Santa Barbara and could not get into work00:09:19.085 –> 00:09:20.605
because the road was closed.00:09:21.465 –> 00:09:24.085
So you really can’t consider those first responders00:09:24.105 –> 00:09:25.205
if they can’t get to work.00:09:26.065 –> 00:09:29.565
Um, the hospital there, cottage hospital were flying in,00:09:29.565 –> 00:09:31.885
doctors and nurses to get to work00:09:32.115 –> 00:09:34.085
because they lived so far away00:09:34.195 –> 00:09:35.805
that they couldn’t get into work.00:09:36.425 –> 00:09:38.965
Uh, I think you saw with the Palisades fire, they had00:09:38.965 –> 00:09:41.805
to bring in firemen from outside of the area00:09:42.305 –> 00:09:43.445
to help fight that fire.00:09:43.465 –> 00:09:45.885
And they put ’em up in hotels and places like that.00:09:46.465 –> 00:09:48.165
It just kind of, it just kind of shows00:09:48.905 –> 00:09:51.525
how this whole thing is devolved, if you will,00:09:52.195 –> 00:09:53.525
from, uh, over the years.00:09:53.785 –> 00:09:58.205
So if you’re gonna have, uh, good first responders, uh,00:09:58.425 –> 00:10:01.525
and, uh, be able to, uh, service the community,00:10:02.045 –> 00:10:04.125
I think you’re gonna find that you want them close00:10:04.125 –> 00:10:06.245
to the area where they’re going to service so00:10:06.245 –> 00:10:09.165
that they can get to work and, and do what they need to do.00:10:09.805 –> 00:10:13.925
COVID-19 also pointed that out, working long hours, uh,00:10:14.045 –> 00:10:16.205
a lot of these, uh, um, nurses00:10:16.385 –> 00:10:18.805
and doctors, uh, lived far away,00:10:18.825 –> 00:10:20.605
and they ended up putting them in hotels00:10:20.605 –> 00:10:22.325
and different places because you couldn’t do00:10:22.325 –> 00:10:23.405
the drive and the work hours.00:10:24.065 –> 00:10:28.725
So I, I think that, uh, there’s a lot of examples as to, um,00:10:29.545 –> 00:10:30.805
why we would want to do this.00:10:30.945 –> 00:10:33.285
And, and I think other than it’s the right thing00:10:33.285 –> 00:10:34.325
to do. Mm-hmm.00:10:34.785 –> 00:10:38.285
And I’d just add to that, that’s a fantastic example00:10:38.465 –> 00:10:41.725
of first responders need to respond first.00:10:42.425 –> 00:10:46.325
Um, and also, people like school bus drivers00:10:46.745 –> 00:10:48.445
or plant managers at schools,00:10:48.795 –> 00:10:50.165
they’re a part of the community.00:10:50.585 –> 00:10:52.125
All the kids know their bus drivers,00:10:52.635 –> 00:10:54.805
they see the school janitors in the00:10:54.805 –> 00:10:55.925
school, they know their names.00:10:56.425 –> 00:11:00.965
And this is a type of social capital that our country, uh,00:11:01.015 –> 00:11:02.685
would excel at in the past00:11:02.785 –> 00:11:05.285
and bringing people into the community.00:11:05.705 –> 00:11:08.125
And when you have people who can’t afford00:11:08.125 –> 00:11:09.565
to live in their community,00:11:09.565 –> 00:11:13.685
where they’re serving the kids across different arenas,00:11:13.685 –> 00:11:14.965
whether it’s in the classroom00:11:15.145 –> 00:11:17.005
or like I said on a school bus,00:11:17.315 –> 00:11:19.805
then it really undercuts a community.00:11:20.145 –> 00:11:21.145
Mm-hmm.00:11:21.825 –> 00:11:24.165
Um, I think those are such interesting points,00:11:24.165 –> 00:11:25.765
because at some point you have00:11:25.765 –> 00:11:27.285
to prioritize who’s gonna get00:11:27.285 –> 00:11:28.725
attention for the housing market.00:11:29.045 –> 00:11:31.645
’cause we could argue that everybody needs special help00:11:31.645 –> 00:11:33.725
unless they’re in the, you know, the upper,00:11:33.725 –> 00:11:34.725
upper income classes.00:11:35.225 –> 00:11:37.245
Um, so you have to figure out00:11:37.305 –> 00:11:39.045
who might be the most deserving,00:11:39.045 –> 00:11:41.645
the most impactful in the community to, to focus on.00:11:41.945 –> 00:11:44.605
And with that, I wanted to ask a, a question of you, Julian,00:11:44.615 –> 00:11:47.445
which is, when you’re hearing these kinds of social problems00:11:47.445 –> 00:11:50.365
that exist in the world, you’ve been a consultant00:11:50.505 –> 00:11:53.005
for dozens, if not hundreds of different businesses.00:11:53.385 –> 00:11:55.285
Uh, how does your brain work towards00:11:55.395 –> 00:11:56.925
orienting towards a solution?00:11:56.955 –> 00:11:59.485
When you hear problem, problem, problem, how,00:11:59.585 –> 00:12:01.325
how do we start thinking about solutions00:12:01.345 –> 00:12:02.485
to these kinds of problems?00:12:04.675 –> 00:12:06.135
Um, it’s a great question.00:12:06.355 –> 00:12:08.895
Um, so these sorts of problems, uh,00:12:08.895 –> 00:12:11.375
because they intersect with the public sector00:12:11.515 –> 00:12:14.855
and with government and with policy, um, are00:12:15.725 –> 00:12:20.095
complicated in a different way, uh, than the kind of, uh,00:12:20.895 –> 00:12:24.055
business that we might look at, uh, for scale in the,00:12:24.155 –> 00:12:25.175
in the private sector.00:12:25.875 –> 00:12:28.175
Um, one of the things that we did very quickly with,00:12:28.565 –> 00:12:30.295
with John, uh, uh,00:12:30.295 –> 00:12:33.735
and the cohort in the program was reach out to the cohort00:12:33.955 –> 00:12:35.215
and to our first and second00:12:35.235 –> 00:12:38.055
and third degree network to find out who do we know00:12:38.055 –> 00:12:40.695
that has information, uh, about these, the,00:12:40.695 –> 00:12:42.295
the situation we’re talking about and the problem,00:12:42.955 –> 00:12:45.335
and who can that group connect us with00:12:45.525 –> 00:12:48.015
that can provide answers to some of those problems?00:12:48.325 –> 00:12:51.775
John came to the table with a lot of information, um,00:12:52.015 –> 00:12:55.335
a very clear idea about the problem, uh, itself.00:12:55.595 –> 00:12:59.895
Uh, and what we were able to do, um, uh, by gathering00:12:59.895 –> 00:13:03.535
around John, was, was use the network to work on a solution00:12:03.535 –> 00:13:04.535
to that problem, uh, and00:12:04.535 –> 00:13:07.015
to explore the different ways in which we might hit00:12:07.375 –> 00:13:09.735
barriers, problems, obstacles, to, to that solution.00:12:10.235 –> 00:13:13.175
Um, but that is a smart way to approach it.00:12:13.245 –> 00:13:14.615
It’s the way that the, the network00:12:14.795 –> 00:13:16.375
of distinguished leaders approached it.00:12:16.795 –> 00:13:19.055
Um, and I don’t pretend to understand a fraction of00:12:19.055 –> 00:13:21.375
what John does, uh, about the situation, even though I’m,00:12:21.375 –> 00:13:22.615
I’ve been working on it now for a while.00:12:22.615 –> 00:13:26.775
This is a complicated, um, uh, problem that touches, uh,00:12:26.885 –> 00:13:29.455
society and politics and culture and history00:12:29.555 –> 00:13:31.495
and, uh, all kinds of different fields.00:12:32.195 –> 00:13:33.535
But, um, the approach00:12:33.535 –> 00:13:37.215
that we took has delivered something which is solid, uh,00:12:37.395 –> 00:13:40.135
and, uh, and, and we’re able to take it to the next step.00:12:40.235 –> 00:13:42.615
Uh, and that’s largely due to the network that we, we,00:12:42.715 –> 00:13:46.175
we dug into, uh, to help us answer some of these questions.00:12:46.525 –> 00:13:48.375
Well, I agree with you. I’ve been wildly impressed00:12:48.375 –> 00:13:50.375
with John’s knowledge and ex experience,00:12:50.375 –> 00:13:51.495
expertise in this space.00:12:51.795 –> 00:13:53.735
And maybe we can hear a little bit about that, John.00:13:53.755 –> 00:13:56.335
So the solution that you’ve, uh, contemplated,00:13:56.335 –> 00:13:57.375
and I want to go to you, Sam,00:13:57.375 –> 00:13:59.495
because you’ve contemplated a very similar issue00:13:59.495 –> 00:14:03.255
and actually had a major success with a S two,00:14:03.255 –> 00:14:04.615
but we’ll talk about that in a sec.00:14:04.675 –> 00:14:08.095
But, so John, what, what is your, your idea00:14:08.125 –> 00:14:10.735
that you’ve developed and, and are looking to implement?00:14:10.955 –> 00:14:12.415
Uh, ’cause I know you00:14:12.415 –> 00:14:14.255
and I have been in the same rooms where people hear it00:14:14.255 –> 00:14:15.815
and get very excited about it,00:14:15.915 –> 00:14:17.575
but so can you tell us what it is?00:14:17.965 –> 00:14:20.815
Yeah, I think to distinguish between, um,00:14:21.795 –> 00:14:24.815
low income housing, you know, the government provides a lot00:14:24.815 –> 00:14:26.495
of resource for low-income housing.00:14:26.565 –> 00:14:29.495
They, they provide HUD grants and loans and things.00:14:30.595 –> 00:14:32.975
Um, this middle group doesn’t have anything that,00:14:32.975 –> 00:14:36.015
that I’ve seen that there’s, there’s no support out there.00:14:36.475 –> 00:14:38.375
And so, um, that,00:14:39.235 –> 00:14:43.325
that then became an opportunity that we got involved with,00:14:44.125 –> 00:14:46.425
uh, with a hospital in, in north of LA00:14:46.875 –> 00:14:49.025
where they could not get nurses and doctors.00:14:49.205 –> 00:14:51.025
And, and Sam is exactly right.00:14:51.085 –> 00:14:52.805
Now, you get a doctor that’s making a lot of money,00:14:52.805 –> 00:14:53.885
they can buy their own house,00:14:53.905 –> 00:14:56.085
but you get a young doctor outta college, uh,00:14:56.085 –> 00:14:57.125
right outta med school,00:14:57.585 –> 00:14:59.485
paying back loans and things like that.00:14:59.715 –> 00:15:03.165
Well, they can’t necessarily afford to live in, uh,00:15:03.285 –> 00:15:05.365
a a million, $2 million starter home.00:15:05.465 –> 00:15:09.445
So they, they’re, these hospitals are reaching00:15:09.525 –> 00:15:11.845
for resources, nurses and things of that nature.00:15:12.385 –> 00:15:15.565
So the object here was very simple, was that they would,00:15:15.565 –> 00:15:16.925
they created, and,00:15:16.985 –> 00:15:18.765
and we, we were part, we were on the team.00:15:18.765 –> 00:15:20.085
We built and developed for them.00:15:20.865 –> 00:15:25.805
Um, you know, you know, it was 119 condos, sold00:15:26.375 –> 00:15:29.605
40 of ’em at market rate for a million dollars.00:15:29.805 –> 00:15:32.675
A copy, uh, paid back the loan.00:15:32.735 –> 00:15:34.875
So that developed $40 million paid00:15:34.875 –> 00:15:35.915
back cost of construction.00:15:36.135 –> 00:15:38.875
And then the rest of ’em went into their, uh,00:15:39.555 –> 00:15:42.355
separate company, of which then they, they sold in a lottery00:15:42.575 –> 00:15:46.915
to their employees at this range that I’ve mentioned00:15:46.915 –> 00:15:49.315
before, 81% a MI to one 20.00:15:49.825 –> 00:15:53.195
They sold those for about three or 400, $300,000 each.00:15:53.195 –> 00:15:57.035
So you can see the delta here of the market was a million.00:15:57.625 –> 00:15:58.955
They sold ’em for 300.00:15:59.695 –> 00:16:03.475
Um, and that, that’s the gap that exists00:16:04.645 –> 00:16:06.025
in life right now.00:16:06.085 –> 00:16:08.585
That’s the gap that can’t get closed very easily.00:16:09.605 –> 00:16:13.185
So they, they invested in this project, uh,00:16:13.185 –> 00:16:14.305
because they needed the workers.00:16:14.375 –> 00:16:16.145
They, they had a business to operate,00:16:16.285 –> 00:16:18.425
and they needed this to, to help00:16:19.165 –> 00:16:22.425
get the employees they needed and keep to operate.00:16:23.205 –> 00:16:26.665
Uh, so then when the employee bought this for 300, they had00:16:26.665 –> 00:16:29.185
to, they had to be able to afford the 300 even.00:16:29.495 –> 00:16:30.905
Yeah. Um, of which they00:16:31.105 –> 00:16:32.505
provided second mortgage support if00:16:32.505 –> 00:16:33.825
that was necessary to close.00:16:34.445 –> 00:16:36.345
And then if they left the system00:16:36.405 –> 00:16:39.145
or retired, they’d sell it back to this organization00:16:39.725 –> 00:16:42.465
and they’d make it available to the next one on the list.00:16:43.325 –> 00:16:47.065
It turned out that this was so successful to ’em,00:16:47.065 –> 00:16:48.865
this has been running now for about 12 years,00:16:49.615 –> 00:16:53.865
that they are now doing more, uh, in a, in a, in,00:16:53.965 –> 00:16:57.065
in a nearby community with the private developer.00:16:57.065 –> 00:16:59.505
They’re doing 200 more units, um,00:16:59.925 –> 00:17:02.305
and putting more money into it to make it happen.00:17:02.325 –> 00:17:04.105
That’s how valuable it is to ’em.00:17:04.645 –> 00:17:07.345
Uh, replacing employees cost a lot of money,00:17:07.525 –> 00:17:09.705
and especially if you have trained employees, you can think00:17:09.705 –> 00:17:11.505
of a sheriff going through an academy,00:17:12.045 –> 00:17:14.465
all the money you put into ’em to have ’em leave00:17:14.465 –> 00:17:16.945
and go work to a, a, another community in Indiana00:17:17.005 –> 00:17:18.745
or somewhere else where they can afford a home.00:17:19.245 –> 00:17:21.985
You can’t continue that constant erosion of good people00:17:22.205 –> 00:17:23.425
and sustain a business.00:17:23.885 –> 00:17:26.665
And so that, that’s basically the, the model here.00:17:26.765 –> 00:17:28.865
And, and what, uh, what we’re up to.00:17:29.425 –> 00:17:31.945
I understand. And this model, you, uh, the key00:17:31.965 –> 00:17:33.225
for it is home ownership.00:17:33.525 –> 00:17:38.145
Um, and in the model that, uh, that you, uh, innovated Sam,00:17:38.165 –> 00:17:40.465
it was, uh, it was a, a rental model.00:17:40.605 –> 00:17:42.665
Um, can you talk about the, the problem00:17:42.805 –> 00:17:45.625
and the, the solution that you brought, uh, to address00:17:45.625 –> 00:17:47.465
that problem and what you think about John’s00:17:47.465 –> 00:17:48.825
idea? Yeah, I think00:17:48.995 –> 00:17:51.685
What I’m hearing, John, um, I understand the details00:17:51.825 –> 00:17:53.525
and what I’m hearing John talk about00:17:54.145 –> 00:17:57.685
is really a better approach to creating housing.00:17:58.345 –> 00:18:01.005
The standard approach to create any kind00:18:01.005 –> 00:18:03.245
of housing is very, very money driven.00:18:03.745 –> 00:18:06.365
We all know money, it takes money to do stuff,00:18:06.705 –> 00:18:09.205
but the entire housing market, whether it’s rental00:18:09.265 –> 00:18:12.365
or home ownership, is money, money, money everywhere.00:18:12.625 –> 00:18:14.645
And a better approach can be used00:18:14.745 –> 00:18:16.685
to create the home ownership models00:18:16.685 –> 00:18:17.885
that John’s talking about,00:18:18.385 –> 00:18:22.205
and the, uh, uh, creating a multi-family, uh, rental housing00:18:22.205 –> 00:18:23.365
that I’m talking about.00:18:24.145 –> 00:18:28.485
Um, and what we did at L-A-U-S-D is we found,00:18:29.145 –> 00:18:33.725
um, uh, parcels of land that were underused,00:18:33.825 –> 00:18:36.765
for example, in a dense urban environment,00:18:37.285 –> 00:18:41.525
a surface parking lot is, uh, an immoral use of land.00:18:41.745 –> 00:18:43.845
Mm-hmm. Because you can build on top of it.00:18:44.305 –> 00:18:48.725
And so the district, uh, in this district pioneered a way,00:18:49.305 –> 00:18:53.565
uh, to unlock the value of that land, um, by00:18:54.085 –> 00:18:55.965
bringing in affordable housing developers00:18:56.185 –> 00:19:01.005
who would finance the development of workforce housing, uh,00:19:01.005 –> 00:19:03.605
but not include the land cost in it.00:19:03.745 –> 00:19:06.485
Mm-hmm. And the development of workforce housing,00:19:07.035 –> 00:19:09.805
depending on the financial structure of creating it,00:19:09.805 –> 00:19:10.805
keeps the rents low.00:19:11.505 –> 00:19:14.525
And then the district went out to its employees00:19:14.985 –> 00:19:16.285
and said, if you’re lower income,00:19:16.285 –> 00:19:17.525
you couldn’t apply for these things.00:19:17.705 –> 00:19:20.525
Mm-hmm. So it’s a di I’m, I’m ex, you know,00:19:20.525 –> 00:19:22.445
it’s way more complex than that,00:19:22.945 –> 00:19:25.805
but I’m sort of trying to share a different approach00:19:25.985 –> 00:19:30.965
to creating housing that gets away from what we’re used to,00:19:31.015 –> 00:19:34.405
which is neighborhoods not loving new housing,00:19:34.505 –> 00:19:37.765
no matter who’s moving in to, uh, land values00:19:37.875 –> 00:19:42.645
that are astronomical to rates of return, ROI by Housers.00:19:43.345 –> 00:19:45.205
Uh, and so that’s why I appreciate both00:19:45.235 –> 00:19:47.925
what the was talking about and what John’s talking about.00:19:47.925 –> 00:19:50.045
It’s a different sort of pathway to creating homes.00:19:51.075 –> 00:19:53.045
Yeah. Yeah.00:19:53.185 –> 00:19:54.805
Uh, I, I appreciate that00:19:54.805 –> 00:19:56.885
because it’s sim it’s very similar problems.00:19:56.955 –> 00:20:00.885
This is the idea of housing not based on, on00:20:01.345 –> 00:20:03.725
who has the least amount of money to afford a home.00:20:03.725 –> 00:20:06.445
This is housing based on what the community really needs,00:20:06.665 –> 00:20:08.805
uh, to retain that sort of a infrastructure00:20:08.805 –> 00:20:09.925
that it, that it provides.00:20:10.265 –> 00:20:12.445
Um, John, you talked about the delta for what,00:20:12.445 –> 00:20:15.165
how much the home costs versus how much the home sold for,00:20:15.345 –> 00:20:18.565
and how does that gap get built?00:20:18.945 –> 00:20:22.325
How does it make economic sense for a developer to say,00:20:22.355 –> 00:20:24.845
sure, I’ll build a million dollar house and sell it for 300.00:20:25.235 –> 00:20:27.765
Yeah, it, well, that’s a very difficult thing00:20:27.765 –> 00:20:29.725
because banks don’t like that answer either.00:20:30.025 –> 00:20:32.925
You know, because they’re financing something00:20:32.925 –> 00:20:34.725
that’s worth a million and, and,00:20:34.725 –> 00:20:37.725
but it on paper’s only worth 600,000 or something.00:20:37.745 –> 00:20:40.045
So there’s a lot of, there’s a lot going on there.00:20:40.665 –> 00:20:45.365
Um, the, the gap gets, uh, funded somehow creatively.00:20:45.365 –> 00:20:48.765
In this other case, uh, they sold 30% of the units00:20:48.945 –> 00:20:51.085
to help fund the others.00:20:51.305 –> 00:20:53.765
And then they came in with money too, to,00:20:53.905 –> 00:20:55.125
to, to close the gap.00:20:55.545 –> 00:20:57.045
So they printed money, if you will,00:20:57.105 –> 00:21:00.685
by selling certain number of ’em in the open market, uh,00:21:00.685 –> 00:21:03.165
generating those profits to offset the other.00:21:03.825 –> 00:21:07.125
So, um, that was how that model worked,00:21:07.125 –> 00:21:09.005
and it’s a good, it’s a good model, unique00:21:09.005 –> 00:21:10.125
to their situation.00:21:10.865 –> 00:21:13.485
Um, the theory though, keep in mind of what,00:21:13.485 –> 00:21:17.205
what I’m looking at on home ownership is the numbers are out00:21:17.205 –> 00:21:19.005
there about what’s the benefit00:21:19.105 –> 00:21:21.205
of somebody owning a home versus renting.00:21:21.745 –> 00:21:25.085
Um, there’s, there’s all kinds of benefits that accrue00:21:25.585 –> 00:21:26.645
to home ownership.00:21:26.645 –> 00:21:27.805
In this case, what I’m talking about,00:21:27.805 –> 00:21:29.165
the owner does build equity.00:21:29.235 –> 00:21:32.205
It’s capped, but they do build equity. They can sell.00:21:32.265 –> 00:21:34.605
And, and with other money they have go buy in the market,00:21:34.825 –> 00:21:35.965
uh, uh, another home.00:21:36.665 –> 00:21:38.765
Um, but they’re, they’re rental.00:21:38.875 –> 00:21:40.085
When you’re renting, of course,00:21:40.085 –> 00:21:41.085
you’re never building equity.00:21:41.085 –> 00:21:43.805
You’re building somebody else’s equity and that.00:21:43.865 –> 00:21:46.685
But I think that to have a middle class00:21:47.025 –> 00:21:50.725
and to have the ability to move upward, like so many00:21:50.725 –> 00:21:53.045
of us have been able to do, you need00:21:53.045 –> 00:21:54.125
to build equity somewhere.00:21:54.145 –> 00:21:56.685
And home is really the best place to build equity.00:21:57.465 –> 00:22:02.085
Uh, and, and home ownership, uh, develops, uh, better.00:22:02.305 –> 00:22:05.005
Um, you know, neighborhoods, you know, the kid,00:22:05.035 –> 00:22:08.405
there’s numbers that show that kids that, uh, are in homes00:22:08.435 –> 00:22:11.285
that are stable with home ownership, do better in school00:22:11.425 –> 00:22:14.485
and are better, you know, uh, community citizens,00:22:14.515 –> 00:22:18.125
that the voting and everything that you can think of, uh, is00:22:18.555 –> 00:22:23.445
that accrues to the, to the society, uh, is, is shown00:22:23.465 –> 00:22:26.285
to be better when you have home ownership versus rental.00:22:27.145 –> 00:22:30.245
Uh, so I understand the rental is a good way to do it,00:22:30.245 –> 00:22:32.645
because it, it’s, it’s financeable00:22:32.665 –> 00:22:33.685
and it’s a way to get there.00:22:33.875 –> 00:22:36.805
Home ownership is more difficult. It’s more of a commitment.00:22:37.385 –> 00:22:41.045
But, uh, that’s what I think, uh, is good.00:22:41.105 –> 00:22:44.085
Now, if you think in terms of, of hospitals00:22:44.105 –> 00:22:47.725
and large organizations, they want to keep those employees.00:22:47.725 –> 00:22:50.525
They’re not, they’re not, uh, you know, interim employees.00:22:50.525 –> 00:22:53.165
If you think of a, uh, of a, a ski resort,00:22:53.215 –> 00:22:55.245
those employees are very temporary.00:22:55.705 –> 00:22:58.165
So you don’t have home ownership model there.00:22:58.455 –> 00:23:00.205
You’d have a rental model there.00:22:00.665 –> 00:23:03.325
But what I’m talking about, I’m trying to pick up on people00:22:03.425 –> 00:23:05.965
who invest heavily in their employees.00:22:05.965 –> 00:23:07.245
They want them to stay there.00:23:07.865 –> 00:23:11.125
Uh, and, and home ownership is a way to get them to come00:23:11.125 –> 00:23:12.965
to work and to stay employed00:23:13.705 –> 00:23:15.405
and be better, uh, you know,00:23:15.525 –> 00:23:17.525
be better citizens at the same time.00:23:17.905 –> 00:23:19.725
So there’s a lot of studies out there that,00:23:19.755 –> 00:23:21.965
that demonstrate the, the benefits00:23:21.965 –> 00:23:23.405
of home ownership versus rental.00:23:23.545 –> 00:23:25.285
And so I’m focused on that slice.00:23:25.685 –> 00:23:26.925
I understand the rental market.00:23:27.105 –> 00:23:29.165
Uh, we’ve done a lot of apartments. I get that.00:23:29.625 –> 00:23:33.165
Uh, but what I’m focused on is the, the, the home ownership00:23:33.165 –> 00:23:34.845
because of the benefits that accrue.00:23:35.905 –> 00:23:37.555
Well, John, you referenced some studies.00:23:37.775 –> 00:23:39.675
You referenced what happened in Santa Barbara.00:23:39.815 –> 00:23:41.315
You referenced a community north00:23:41.315 –> 00:23:42.835
of Los Angeles with a hospital.00:23:43.215 –> 00:23:45.565
It sounds like there’s a, a growing appetite00:23:45.565 –> 00:23:48.285
for innovation in housing, uh, right now.00:23:48.465 –> 00:23:51.045
And we’ve, we’ve seen some pretty dramatic steps even from,00:23:51.045 –> 00:23:52.845
uh, California Governor Newsom recently.00:23:52.905 –> 00:23:54.485
Mm-hmm. Sort of trying to clear the way00:23:54.505 –> 00:23:56.325
to make it easier to, to build.00:23:56.665 –> 00:23:59.085
Um, I wanted to, to ask, uh,00:23:59.235 –> 00:24:02.085
because that’s a growing area, I wanted to ask Sam,00:24:02.085 –> 00:24:04.765
when you did this project with the LUSD00:24:04.785 –> 00:24:07.765
and actually brought this, uh, made it affordable00:24:07.765 –> 00:24:10.525
for teachers to live in the communities they serve, um,00:24:10.745 –> 00:24:13.445
did L-A-U-S-D or did other school districts then come00:24:13.445 –> 00:24:15.085
and say, look, we’d like to do more of this.00:24:15.155 –> 00:24:17.405
This was a great model, and, and if not, why not?00:24:18.105 –> 00:24:19.405
That’s super interesting.00:24:19.665 –> 00:24:22.325
In California, the for first school district00:24:22.325 –> 00:24:24.885
who even thought about teacher housing00:24:25.425 –> 00:24:26.605
was in Silicon Valley,00:24:26.705 –> 00:24:30.965
and they came up with a totally, they had the big, uh, uh,00:24:31.365 –> 00:24:35.525
internet web tech companies pay for housing for teachers.00:24:36.085 –> 00:24:37.805
L-A-U-S-D totally did it differently00:24:38.425 –> 00:24:40.245
and created workforce housing,00:24:40.345 –> 00:24:42.925
but for its lower income, uh, workers.00:24:43.705 –> 00:24:48.005
Um, um, so teachers, uh, uh, typically,00:24:48.005 –> 00:24:50.765
unless they’re just starting out, uh, make too much money.00:24:51.105 –> 00:24:53.965
But to your to, to your point, the,00:24:54.025 –> 00:24:57.805
the reason why the L-A-U-S-D Workforce Housing Initiative worked,00:24:58.145 –> 00:25:01.325
and the reason why almost all00:25:01.585 –> 00:25:05.605
of affordable rental housing, new construction works is00:25:05.605 –> 00:25:09.125
that the local community has a sense of who’s moving in00:25:09.185 –> 00:25:12.245
and a, a sense of the value of, of,00:25:12.465 –> 00:25:13.845
of housing for the community.00:25:14.265 –> 00:25:16.965
Uh, and that’s what I ran into in developing the Ford00:25:17.365 –> 00:25:19.205
developments for L-A-U-S-D.00:25:20.105 –> 00:25:22.805
If the community, especially around the la the area,00:25:22.985 –> 00:25:27.485
the land involved, uh, appreciates the need00:25:27.665 –> 00:25:31.125
for workforce housing, they don’t oppose it.00:25:31.545 –> 00:25:35.765
Versus, and a developer who sort of parachutes in00:25:36.345 –> 00:25:39.325
and just is doing it from a, from a financial point of view,00:25:39.825 –> 00:25:43.285
that’s really where NIMBY comes out.00:25:43.385 –> 00:25:46.325
And they go to, there’s a thousand different points00:25:46.425 –> 00:25:47.485
of stopping housing.00:25:47.595 –> 00:25:50.365
There’s, there’s the planning commission meetings,00:25:50.395 –> 00:25:53.445
there’s qual, which is the environmental stuff.00:25:53.445 –> 00:25:55.245
There’s a dozen other ones.00:25:55.825 –> 00:25:57.485
Um, but I think those,00:25:57.955 –> 00:26:00.285
what you asked about was sort of policies.00:26:00.785 –> 00:26:02.445
The core policy for me00:26:02.555 –> 00:26:05.485
that would really open up workforce housing,00:26:05.675 –> 00:26:07.245
whether a home ownership model00:26:07.265 –> 00:26:10.885
or a rental model is better understanding by people00:26:10.885 –> 00:26:13.805
who live in California, who the middle class is,00:26:14.265 –> 00:26:17.165
who the working class is, it’s us mostly.00:26:18.425 –> 00:26:21.165
And mm-hmm. Uh, with better education about00:26:21.225 –> 00:26:23.685
who our workforce is, uh,00:26:24.205 –> 00:26:27.165
I think it would become much easier to develop this kind00:26:27.165 –> 00:26:30.245
of new approaches to creating housing and homes.00:26:31.165 –> 00:26:34.645
Yeah. Well, so a couple thoughts that come from that.00:26:34.705 –> 00:26:37.245
But one, one is about, uh, the middle class00:26:37.265 –> 00:26:38.485
and how it’s getting pinched00:26:38.485 –> 00:26:40.525
because we’ve had been told, uh,00:26:40.795 –> 00:26:42.885
that if you spend more than 30%00:26:42.885 –> 00:26:44.845
of your income on housing rental or,00:26:44.985 –> 00:26:47.765
or mortgage, then uh, it’s too much.00:26:47.905 –> 00:26:50.125
And then you have to end up cutting in other areas.00:26:50.345 –> 00:26:52.645
And we’ve seen that increasingly, these, these,00:26:52.645 –> 00:26:55.685
they’re called cost burdened, uh, uh, home ownership00:26:55.705 –> 00:26:58.885
or cost burden more, uh, rentals where the person is having00:26:58.885 –> 00:27:00.125
to cut in other areas00:27:00.155 –> 00:27:03.085
because they just can’t afford, uh, the living expenses.00:27:03.185 –> 00:27:05.605
And in some cases, people are spending over 50%00:27:05.605 –> 00:27:08.125
or 60% of their income just on, on housing.00:27:08.705 –> 00:27:11.165
Uh, do you find that the, um,00:27:11.265 –> 00:27:13.245
and either the, the rental strategy or John00:27:13.245 –> 00:27:17.245
and your, uh, uh, ownership strategy, that the point00:27:17.245 –> 00:27:19.405
of purchase can be lowered enough to00:27:19.405 –> 00:27:22.045
where it doesn’t contribute to this cost burden to00:27:22.045 –> 00:27:24.085
where people can actually afford00:27:24.595 –> 00:27:27.405
even the dramatically lowered home costs?00:27:29.475 –> 00:27:32.285
Well, in the case of the, of the one that we did, uh,00:27:32.335 –> 00:27:33.845
where they sold for a million00:27:33.985 –> 00:27:36.245
and then they sold theirs for 300,000,00:27:36.245 –> 00:27:37.285
that was a pretty good price.00:27:37.555 –> 00:27:40.805
They also provided a second mortgage at two points00:27:40.935 –> 00:27:44.045
below rate, uh, a going rate to their employees00:27:44.045 –> 00:27:48.365
to help them, uh, you know, buy down the, the, the,00:27:48.745 –> 00:27:49.965
the, the entry price.00:27:50.905 –> 00:27:55.405
Um, I, I think it’s, you know, I, I think that00:27:57.845 –> 00:28:00.105
the cost of housing, I think what the governor was trying00:28:00.105 –> 00:28:02.385
to do is he, he’s at least alerted to it.00:28:02.765 –> 00:28:05.385
He was trying to get rid of the, uh, you know, uh,00:28:05.525 –> 00:28:08.225
he didn’t call it this, but the prevailing wage requirements00:28:08.225 –> 00:28:09.585
and some of those other things, he was trying00:28:09.585 –> 00:28:12.705
to soften the blow that, um, you know, try00:28:12.705 –> 00:28:14.305
to curtail the SE expense00:28:14.365 –> 00:28:16.425
and the, the cost of fighting these things.00:28:17.365 –> 00:28:21.345
Um, so I think, you know, the, the, the, the,00:28:21.525 –> 00:28:23.825
the alarm has been rung on it, so to speak now.00:28:23.845 –> 00:28:25.385
Now, how, how far can we push it00:28:25.485 –> 00:28:27.745
and get the price, get the cost of housing down?00:28:27.915 –> 00:28:32.465
Definitely we need to lower the entitlement costs, uh,00:28:32.605 –> 00:28:35.225
and including the, the charges that the city charges00:28:35.365 –> 00:28:38.185
to do plan check and, and all those kinds of things.00:28:38.205 –> 00:28:40.865
And expediting that process. Time is money.00:28:41.525 –> 00:28:45.905
And, um, you know, speeding up the process is, is critical.00:28:46.165 –> 00:28:48.825
The sequel, the sequel process could take a year and a half00:28:48.825 –> 00:28:51.065
or so, and if you could get rid of that, think about00:28:51.125 –> 00:28:54.185
how much time you’re saving, uh, just on time00:28:54.185 –> 00:28:58.105
and money on that proc on that, on that, uh, program.00:28:58.405 –> 00:29:01.145
And so there, there’s a lot out there that can be done.00:29:01.425 –> 00:29:03.465
I think that just, I was encouraged00:29:03.465 –> 00:29:05.585
that this governor took those actions00:29:06.165 –> 00:29:09.145
and he was, he was bold enough to twist arms to do it.00:29:09.645 –> 00:29:11.065
Um, there’s more to be done,00:29:11.165 –> 00:29:13.585
but I think it’s, it’s, that’s a good,00:29:13.825 –> 00:29:15.665
a good awareness to start with that.00:29:15.975 –> 00:29:19.785
Yeah. Well, I, I wanna ask Julian a question here related00:29:19.805 –> 00:29:20.825
to what we’re discussing,00:29:20.825 –> 00:29:25.025
because I’ve heard both of you refer some in some capacity00:29:25.025 –> 00:29:27.425
to, it’s the right thing to do, uh, that we really need00:29:27.425 –> 00:29:30.065
to take, make sure that housing is, is affordable00:29:30.085 –> 00:29:31.985
and available to, uh, to middle class,00:29:31.985 –> 00:29:33.985
particularly first responders, teachers.00:29:34.325 –> 00:29:36.785
Uh, and so sort of community infrastructure pillars.00:29:37.245 –> 00:29:40.705
Um, I’ve also heard you both say that in, in order to,00:29:41.505 –> 00:29:43.365
for the, these kinds of programs to be viable,00:29:43.475 –> 00:29:44.725
they need to be sustainable.00:29:44.745 –> 00:29:47.845
And that’s my question for Julian really is, uh, that line00:29:47.845 –> 00:29:49.485
between it’s the right thing to do,00:29:50.065 –> 00:29:52.925
and this is actually a sustainable business model.00:29:53.185 –> 00:29:55.885
How much does that go into your thinking when you’re00:29:56.085 –> 00:29:58.405
advising, uh, people on, on their businesses?00:29:58.585 –> 00:30:00.685
Can they just do it because it’s the right thing to do?00:30:00.785 –> 00:30:03.045
Or does it have to be a sustainable business model,00:30:03.105 –> 00:30:04.125
or, or forget it?00:30:06.115 –> 00:30:07.175
Um, it depends.00:30:07.175 –> 00:30:10.295
It’s a question that we address a lot, um, in the program,00:30:10.485 –> 00:30:12.935
because typically in the second half of life,00:30:12.935 –> 00:30:14.335
when people are reassessing00:30:14.475 –> 00:30:18.575
and looking at the, the composite, um, nature of experience00:30:19.095 –> 00:30:22.855
and skills and, and, and life to date, mm-hmm.00:30:23.045 –> 00:30:24.175
Typically, not always,00:30:24.275 –> 00:30:26.495
but typically we’re looking for something that has meaning00:30:26.515 –> 00:30:29.175
and purpose and often meaning00:30:29.195 –> 00:30:32.935
and purpose, uh, struggle with, uh, commercial viability.00:30:33.235 –> 00:30:35.095
Um, and so it is a question00:30:35.095 –> 00:30:36.975
that we address a fair bit in the program.00:30:37.875 –> 00:30:40.055
Um, and, and I think it really does depend.00:30:40.055 –> 00:30:43.255
So by and large, we are looking for something which is, uh,00:30:43.375 –> 00:30:44.935
a, a sustainable model.00:30:45.115 –> 00:30:46.815
Uh, even if it’s not profitable,00:30:46.815 –> 00:30:48.895
if there’s no commercial angle, we’re looking at something00:30:48.895 –> 00:30:52.175
that has legs, um, that can survive, that will be, uh,00:30:52.215 –> 00:30:54.815
operable for a long enough time, um,00:30:54.815 –> 00:30:56.095
that we can build it into00:30:56.095 –> 00:30:57.215
something that will have an impact.00:30:57.355 –> 00:30:59.215
Mm-hmm. Um, if there is a commercial angle,00:30:59.215 –> 00:31:01.575
then clearly we’re looking at sustainable, uh,00:30:01.595 –> 00:31:03.175
and profitable at the same time.00:30:03.715 –> 00:31:06.575
And then in one or two cases, neither of those applies.00:30:06.925 –> 00:31:08.735
It’s more of a personal project.00:30:08.965 –> 00:31:11.295
It’s something that we are gonna operate at a very small00:30:11.295 –> 00:31:13.255
scale, perhaps, or a one person scale.00:30:13.675 –> 00:31:15.335
And the goal isn’t for it00:30:15.335 –> 00:31:17.535
to be sustainable in any scalable way.00:30:17.715 –> 00:31:20.695
Uh, it’s simply that we are able to make a small impact,00:30:20.855 –> 00:31:22.775
a small difference in our community,00:30:22.995 –> 00:31:25.015
in our social group, in our tribe.00:30:25.475 –> 00:31:28.975
Um, and so it’s, it’s a, it’s an excellent question00:30:28.975 –> 00:31:30.415
and one that we address early on.00:30:30.715 –> 00:31:33.895
Uh, we, we have a, a sort of three stage process00:30:34.025 –> 00:31:37.135
where we look at why, why are we asking questions?00:31:37.595 –> 00:31:39.455
Uh, what therefore will we,00:31:39.455 –> 00:31:41.135
will we shape ourselves to become?00:31:41.395 –> 00:31:42.895
And then how do we go about that?00:31:43.395 –> 00:31:45.575
Uh, and pretty much from the end of part one,00:31:45.675 –> 00:31:48.495
we are looking at, um, is this a sustainable idea?00:31:48.805 –> 00:31:50.255
What does sustainability mean?00:31:50.595 –> 00:31:52.295
Uh, is there a commercial angle?00:31:52.485 –> 00:31:54.295
What sort of impact are we looking to make?00:31:54.555 –> 00:31:56.295
Uh, and how will we do that beyond00:31:56.875 –> 00:31:58.615
the next six months or the next two years?00:31:58.615 –> 00:32:00.815
Yeah. So, uh, it’s a question we address constantly.00:32:01.035 –> 00:32:04.535
In this case, uh, the commercial angle is super important.00:32:04.635 –> 00:32:07.255
Uh, and John has a very, very strong grasp of00:32:07.255 –> 00:32:09.375
how the levers, the mechanics of how that works.00:32:10.155 –> 00:32:13.215
Um, and it’s different in California than it would be in the00:32:13.215 –> 00:32:14.215
Netherlands or Austria00:32:14.235 –> 00:32:15.775
or France, for example, which are my00:32:15.775 –> 00:32:17.255
closest references mm-hmm.00:32:17.305 –> 00:32:20.375
Where this same model is slightly different.00:32:20.675 –> 00:32:22.775
Um, uh, that has a lot in common.00:32:22.835 –> 00:32:24.215
And the commercial angle, um,00:32:24.235 –> 00:32:25.495
uh, is a little bit different too.00:32:25.555 –> 00:32:29.055
So again, depending on, on how we approach the problem and,00:32:29.255 –> 00:32:31.935
and, and how far we stretch it, we would come up with a,00:32:32.015 –> 00:32:34.175
a different approach, a different answer to those questions.00:32:34.785 –> 00:32:36.695
Understood. And, and thank you for that context.00:32:37.235 –> 00:32:38.855
Uh, we had invited our audience00:32:38.875 –> 00:32:40.885
to pose questions in the q and a.00:32:40.885 –> 00:32:43.405
So thank you for those of you who have, I’m gonna ask one00:32:43.405 –> 00:32:46.925
of these questions, and, uh, Sam, John, Julie, whoever wants00:32:46.925 –> 00:32:48.205
to answer it, please go for it.00:32:48.515 –> 00:32:50.365
This question is from an anonymous00:32:50.565 –> 00:32:52.045
attendee, uh, thank you, anonymous.00:32:52.225 –> 00:32:55.125
It says, how will you measure success socially00:32:55.125 –> 00:32:58.125
and economically so you can show skeptics00:32:58.275 –> 00:32:59.765
that it’s worth the investment?00:33:01.035 –> 00:33:04.525
Well, I’ll go, um, I’ll go first because it’s very clear.00:33:05.305 –> 00:33:08.685
Uh, there’s already hundreds of examples of success00:33:08.905 –> 00:33:11.205
of the not, uh, of nonprofit00:33:12.015 –> 00:33:16.805
developers creating rental housing, uh, for, uh,00:33:16.825 –> 00:33:19.765
people at in the workforce who don’t earn a lot of money.00:33:20.265 –> 00:33:22.245
And those places are centers of communities00:33:22.245 –> 00:33:25.125
and their kids go off to college and do really great.00:33:25.345 –> 00:33:28.725
And those exist now, uh, a tiny, uh, I just wanna mention,00:33:29.025 –> 00:33:30.965
uh, something that you, uh, Kamy00:33:30.965 –> 00:33:34.805
and Julian, uh, mentioned ago, uh, the Karen, um,00:33:35.405 –> 00:33:36.885
governmental aid00:33:37.065 –> 00:33:40.085
to help create affordable rental housing has been00:33:40.085 –> 00:33:41.685
around since 1986.00:33:41.705 –> 00:33:42.965
That’s a model that works.00:33:43.105 –> 00:33:46.205
Now it’s outside the mainstream because you need,00:33:46.505 –> 00:33:48.005
and there’s a bunch of for-profit00:33:48.005 –> 00:33:49.485
developers who also develop it.00:33:49.825 –> 00:33:52.725
But my point is this been a sector that’s been vibrant00:33:53.105 –> 00:33:55.565
for 50 years, um, it,00:33:55.665 –> 00:33:58.125
it gets lost in the big trillion dollar00:33:58.175 –> 00:34:00.045
commercial real estate world.00:34:00.305 –> 00:34:01.525
But I just want to throw that out there.00:34:01.945 –> 00:34:04.965
Uh, but just to conclude my answer, there’s a lot00:34:04.965 –> 00:34:06.485
of examples to show success00:34:06.485 –> 00:34:08.605
and the successes looking at, uh,00:34:08.655 –> 00:34:13.205
after five years, even 10 years of people who grew up in00:34:13.715 –> 00:34:16.085
high quality, affordable housing, how they’re doing now.00:34:16.145 –> 00:34:18.165
And we can measure that, right? Right. The second,00:34:19.955 –> 00:34:21.695
And, and appreciate all of those points.00:34:21.795 –> 00:34:23.895
So, so that, that goes to you, John,00:34:23.895 –> 00:34:24.935
how do you measure success?00:34:26.155 –> 00:34:28.615
Um, well, that, that’s a great question.00:34:29.265 –> 00:34:31.775
Let’s, let’s back away from success for a moment,00:34:31.795 –> 00:34:33.455
and let’s talk about sustainability.00:34:33.465 –> 00:34:34.655
Let’s talk about commitment.00:34:34.715 –> 00:34:38.915
So, um, I measure success in that00:34:39.705 –> 00:34:43.235
I’ve had a great life, and I, I walk my way up from,00:34:43.815 –> 00:34:45.515
you know, middle class, if you will.00:34:45.895 –> 00:34:50.555
And, and, and the question is, um, do we pay it forward?00:34:50.625 –> 00:34:51.675
What do we do about that?00:34:51.695 –> 00:34:53.035
And that’s why I joined this program,00:34:53.255 –> 00:34:54.435
is how do you pay it forward?00:34:55.255 –> 00:34:58.115
And, and the sustainability, it may not be00:34:58.115 –> 00:34:59.915
of a particular program, per se,00:34:59.915 –> 00:35:01.675
but we’re talking about of a society00:34:02.455 –> 00:35:05.675
and the commitment to making the society sustainable.00:34:06.535 –> 00:35:08.715
And that’s what’s at risk here.00:34:08.715 –> 00:35:10.395
There’s something much bigger than,00:34:10.505 –> 00:35:13.075
than just a building program, if you will.00:34:13.615 –> 00:34:15.955
And that’s where, uh, you know, Julian was so helpful00:34:16.055 –> 00:34:17.795
to me thinking about area of impact.00:34:17.795 –> 00:34:20.675
The area of impact may not be my little business model00:34:20.695 –> 00:35:22.315
of building some homes and doing that.00:35:22.615 –> 00:35:25.795
The, the, the area of impact is, you know, how does,00:35:25.975 –> 00:35:27.915
how does society ultimately function?00:35:28.115 –> 00:35:30.835
I inherited a society that functioned pretty well.00:35:31.385 –> 00:35:34.075
Well, I leave one that works as well,00:35:34.815 –> 00:35:36.555
and I don’t think it is right now.00:35:36.735 –> 00:35:38.365
And I think it’s headed for trouble,00:35:38.615 –> 00:35:42.485
which is why I believe in this program about helping people00:35:43.065 –> 00:35:45.885
get into home ownership, build equity, and, and,00:35:45.985 –> 00:35:49.965
and, you know, work their way up, uh, in the economic model.00:35:49.985 –> 00:35:51.925
That’s what keeps this whole thing, the,00:35:51.925 –> 00:35:53.685
the wheels running on this whole thing.00:35:54.265 –> 00:35:57.245
And if they, if, if we become selfish00:35:57.425 –> 00:35:59.085
and just say, I’m gonna pull up anchor00:35:59.365 –> 00:36:02.645
’cause I got what I want, um, and I could do that.00:36:02.945 –> 00:36:04.085
I’m, I’m happy to do that,00:36:04.785 –> 00:36:08.365
but I don’t think when I’m laying on my deathbed,00:36:08.525 –> 00:36:10.405
I can say, I gave it my all.00:36:10.945 –> 00:36:14.645
And so I think you have to look past some of the, the, uh,00:36:14.925 –> 00:36:16.925
ROI numbers and things like that,00:36:17.425 –> 00:36:18.685
and you have to find a way around it.00:36:18.705 –> 00:36:21.685
Now, one of the things the program taught us to do was how00:36:21.685 –> 00:36:25.445
to lobby and educate on a bigger level and lobby00:36:25.545 –> 00:36:28.445
and educate the politicals and, and organizations.00:36:28.865 –> 00:36:31.925
And I think I can do that with corporations00:36:31.995 –> 00:36:35.605
that have something at stake, uh, to invest.00:36:35.755 –> 00:36:37.405
They invest in things all the time.00:36:37.635 –> 00:36:41.085
Investing in some of this housing is not outside the norm00:36:41.085 –> 00:36:42.245
of what they would invest in.00:36:42.245 –> 00:36:43.325
They’re just not doing it.00:36:43.545 –> 00:36:47.005
And I need to, I need to redirect those dollars over00:36:47.145 –> 00:36:49.965
and show them, Hey, you’re building a better organization if00:36:49.965 –> 00:36:52.445
you do this than some of the other things you’re doing.00:36:52.905 –> 00:36:54.485
So there’s an education component,00:36:54.505 –> 00:36:56.845
so I’m gonna create sustainability that way, Kamy,00:36:56.845 –> 00:36:58.325
if I can kind of go that way.00:36:58.595 –> 00:37:01.325
Yeah. Um, but it takes, you know, it takes a lot00:37:01.325 –> 00:37:03.525
of education and lobbying and awareness,00:37:04.385 –> 00:37:06.965
but, uh, that, that’s, uh, that’s the task at hand,00:37:07.925 –> 00:37:09.565
actually, as it turns out, building the units00:37:09.985 –> 00:37:11.005
is the simple piece.00:37:11.555 –> 00:37:13.565
Yeah. I see. That’s right, Sam,00:37:13.565 –> 00:37:14.685
you’re nodding in your head, building the00:37:14.685 –> 00:37:16.325
units is the simple piece. Yep.00:37:16.595 –> 00:37:20.965
Yeah. Um, well, you brought up this point about,00:37:20.985 –> 00:37:23.125
you know, it’s pay it forward, it’s the right thing to do.00:37:23.435 –> 00:37:26.525
It’s, it’s a lending a hand to subsequent generations00:37:26.545 –> 00:37:27.725
and make sure that we’re leaving the00:37:27.725 –> 00:37:28.765
world in a better place.00:37:28.785 –> 00:37:30.365
And I mean, what a wonderful attitude00:37:30.365 –> 00:37:31.485
for any human being to have.00:37:31.585 –> 00:37:34.205
So, uh, kudos for on, on that.00:37:34.585 –> 00:37:38.925
Uh, but let me ask, uh, uh, Sam, for that, uh,00:37:38.955 –> 00:37:40.205
that pay it forward mindset.00:37:40.625 –> 00:37:43.205
You know, what do you do if, uh, you wanted to focus on,00:37:43.585 –> 00:37:46.645
you know, one or two single policies real, like, look,00:37:46.865 –> 00:37:50.005
my legacy, my impact, the thing that I really, really,00:37:50.005 –> 00:37:51.245
really want to change in order00:37:51.265 –> 00:37:53.645
to develop more workforce housing, uh,00:37:53.775 –> 00:37:55.565
let’s say in California, than, than00:37:55.715 –> 00:37:56.765
what, what would that be?00:37:56.795 –> 00:37:57.795
What, what do you do?00:37:58.925 –> 00:38:01.485
I don’t mean to be all professorial here,00:38:02.625 –> 00:38:06.885
but in terms of how like the money plays out,00:38:07.505 –> 00:38:09.965
it starts where the, so society is,00:38:10.065 –> 00:38:12.605
and society shows itself through its politics,00:38:12.625 –> 00:38:17.325
and then the politics is what creates inve, um, incentives00:38:17.625 –> 00:38:19.285
or non incentives to move forward.00:38:19.625 –> 00:38:22.685
And so I was, I was referencing earlier in my remarks,00:38:23.605 –> 00:38:26.325
I think that the NIMBY issue,00:38:26.385 –> 00:38:30.165
but not in my backyard, I think it’s really based,00:38:30.225 –> 00:38:31.485
and it’s all, it’s everywhere.00:38:31.515 –> 00:38:34.805
When I was, when I was doing, uh, non workforce housing,00:38:34.805 –> 00:38:37.205
just in the affordable housing sector,00:38:37.905 –> 00:38:41.045
maybe’s were always the biggest problem in getting a project00:38:41.915 –> 00:38:44.605
decided upon on the front end, then financing00:38:44.665 –> 00:38:46.085
and then actual construction.00:38:46.825 –> 00:38:48.765
And so Im, for some kind00:38:48.765 –> 00:38:51.045
of public education might be the wrong thing,00:38:51.065 –> 00:38:55.445
but some kind of leadership promotion00:38:56.435 –> 00:38:58.405
that it’s not just billionaires00:38:58.585 –> 00:39:00.645
and high-end millionaires that count.00:39:00.795 –> 00:39:03.565
It’s all of us. And I think that’s maybe why00:39:03.565 –> 00:39:05.205
that guy in New York sort00:39:05.205 –> 00:39:07.685
of won the primary there in the mayors race00:39:07.685 –> 00:39:09.965
because he focused on those exact issues.00:39:10.905 –> 00:39:13.525
And so I think it’s not necessarily, I know you’re asking00:39:13.545 –> 00:39:15.085
for a very specific policy thing,00:39:15.085 –> 00:39:17.925
and I used to work in Sacramento all day long on00:39:17.925 –> 00:39:19.005
exactly things like this.00:39:19.625 –> 00:39:21.405
But as in the last 20 years00:39:21.465 –> 00:39:25.645
or so, uh, I’ve become really focused on00:39:26.325 –> 00:39:28.845
building a social support for,00:39:29.595 –> 00:39:30.925
I’ll just call it workforce housing,00:39:30.925 –> 00:39:33.725
whether it’s an ownership model or not, that’s needed.00:39:33.725 –> 00:39:37.365
Mm-hmm. And I think more focus in our society about00:39:37.365 –> 00:39:40.565
that stuff will pay off in policy changes00:39:40.595 –> 00:39:42.965
that we can’t even imagine right now. Yeah.00:39:43.575 –> 00:39:45.125
Sorry To be so general. No,00:39:45.125 –> 00:39:46.125
No, it’s, it’s great.00:39:46.125 –> 00:39:47.165
’cause you’re saying it, it needs00:39:47.165 –> 00:39:49.205
to have community supporters not gonna work,00:39:49.265 –> 00:39:52.685
and it’ll, it will prevent the nimbyism from triggering, uh,00:39:52.745 –> 00:39:54.925
if you can do it with a groundswell of, of, uh,00:39:55.105 –> 00:39:56.845
of local support, uh, under.00:39:56.845 –> 00:39:59.805
Understood. Um, well, we have a,00:39:59.915 –> 00:40:01.365
another question here, folks.00:40:01.365 –> 00:40:03.405
This is from, uh, Chris Brown00:40:03.545 –> 00:40:05.925
and Chris, I’m gonna read your question just as you have it00:40:05.925 –> 00:40:07.885
to make sure we address it, uh, correctly.00:40:08.225 –> 00:40:10.205
Uh, it says two good ideas have been presented.00:40:10.225 –> 00:40:11.765
My questions are, why aren’t you,00:40:11.765 –> 00:40:15.525
or somebody moving out on one or both of these ideas,00:40:15.785 –> 00:40:18.565
but in a smaller scale, uh, in the world00:40:18.565 –> 00:40:21.045
of satellite development, who could develop prototypes00:40:21.045 –> 00:40:23.365
to verify the concept design costs, et cetera.00:40:23.365 –> 00:40:25.525
Could you follow a similar path for the types00:40:25.525 –> 00:40:27.965
of housing solutions you’re recommending?00:40:28.465 –> 00:40:31.445
Um, so could you do this on a, on a project scale?00:40:31.665 –> 00:40:33.365
And it doesn’t have to be a business scale.00:40:33.375 –> 00:40:34.885
Could it be smaller scale?00:40:35.145 –> 00:40:40.005
Uh, and, and if, if, so, uh, a related question is00:40:40.005 –> 00:40:42.165
what can the, what can we the public do00:40:42.185 –> 00:40:43.485
to support that and help?00:40:45.415 –> 00:40:49.905
Well, I, um, uh, you know, as, as, uh, Julian knows,00:40:50.105 –> 00:40:53.025
I have a project in mind and I have a client in mind.00:40:53.415 –> 00:40:54.545
It’s an existing client.00:40:55.565 –> 00:40:57.345
And, uh, we’re getting approvals00:40:57.345 –> 00:40:58.785
to build a new building for them.00:40:58.845 –> 00:41:03.025
And when that occurs, the lot they’re on now is suited00:41:03.045 –> 00:41:06.265
for housing, although it, it’ll require a zone change,00:41:06.365 –> 00:41:08.185
but it, it’s, it’s suitable for housing.00:41:08.325 –> 00:41:09.425
So let’s leave it at that.00:41:10.045 –> 00:41:12.905
Uh, had an architect layout, uh, 96 units,00:41:13.045 –> 00:41:15.465
we can get 96 units on there and meet code.00:41:16.205 –> 00:41:18.705
Um, and as soon as the, uh,00:41:19.135 –> 00:41:23.785
opening occurs when I think my client has the, um, you know,00:41:23.855 –> 00:41:24.945
mindset, you know,00:41:24.945 –> 00:41:27.145
because we’re busy doing one thing, I don’t want to,00:41:27.415 –> 00:41:28.545
this is not the right time00:41:28.545 –> 00:41:30.985
to hit ’em on this other one, but it’s getting close.00:41:31.155 –> 00:41:33.065
We’re within weeks and months of doing it.00:41:33.665 –> 00:41:35.685
Uh, I wanna present to them, and I’ve talked to them00:41:35.685 –> 00:41:38.485
before about workforce housing, and they, they lit up on it.00:41:38.485 –> 00:41:40.605
They said, we like the idea, we want you to,00:41:40.605 –> 00:41:41.885
to tell us more about it.00:41:42.705 –> 00:41:46.685
Um, but wherever I’ve gone, I’ve had, uh, you, you know,00:41:46.685 –> 00:41:48.725
I lived in a world of real estate where you had00:41:48.725 –> 00:41:50.485
to sell yourself all the time, right?00:41:50.625 –> 00:41:53.845
And so, uh, but now I’m getting a lot of people coming in00:41:53.845 –> 00:41:55.885
and telling me, you know, not, don’t sell yourself.00:41:55.885 –> 00:41:57.285
Come in and tell me how we can do it.00:41:57.305 –> 00:42:01.685
So it is very, uh, it’s a very attractive,00:42:02.745 –> 00:42:04.645
um, you know, model, if you will,00:42:05.065 –> 00:42:07.365
but it takes closing the gap, and I’m working on that too.00:42:07.385 –> 00:42:09.205
You, you’re the one, uh, uh, economy00:42:09.205 –> 00:42:12.165
that got me interested in, uh, 5 0 1 C300:42:12.185 –> 00:42:14.285
and Impact Foundation, and Tara did too.00:42:14.305 –> 00:42:17.245
And so I’m meeting with an attorney tomorrow to set one00:42:17.245 –> 00:42:21.805
of those up to try to bring in, uh, you know, tax free funds00:42:21.865 –> 00:42:23.085
to help close this gap.00:42:23.465 –> 00:42:25.205
To, to Chris’s point, the reason why more00:42:25.205 –> 00:42:27.525
of this isn’t done is ’cause there’s a financial gap there.00:42:27.875 –> 00:42:30.165
Yeah. And you gotta close that financial gap.00:42:30.165 –> 00:42:31.485
If there wasn’t a financial gap00:42:31.485 –> 00:42:33.845
and there was profit there, we’d all be out doing it.00:42:34.125 –> 00:42:36.245
I understand. Overcome the NIMBYs and everything else.00:42:36.745 –> 00:42:38.005
The real problem is, is00:42:38.005 –> 00:42:40.965
that someone’s gotta come from the hip with some real dough,00:42:41.465 –> 00:42:43.365
uh, to close the gap on these projects.00:42:43.385 –> 00:42:44.925
And so, uh, that, and,00:42:44.925 –> 00:42:46.365
and I’ve talked to people, uh,00:42:46.455 –> 00:42:49.925
large financial institution say, we have money for that,00:42:50.185 –> 00:42:53.565
but we, you know, they gotta have a place to give it. So00:42:53.885 –> 00:42:54.605
I understand. Yeah.00:42:54.905 –> 00:42:56.765
So there is, we are, I am working on that.00:42:56.765 –> 00:42:59.125
There will be, uh, I think, um,00:42:59.545 –> 00:43:01.405
my goal is definitely get some of these built00:42:01.405 –> 00:43:03.525
before I actually hang up the cleats altogether.00:42:03.865 –> 00:43:05.805
So we’re, we’re, we’re working on it.00:42:06.155 –> 00:43:08.885
Well, I love that. Love the attitude, Joe.00:42:08.885 –> 00:43:10.645
Believe it or not, here we are at time.00:42:10.785 –> 00:43:13.245
And so, uh, we could talk about this forever.00:42:13.245 –> 00:43:14.805
Obviously it’s a huge, uh, problem.00:42:14.805 –> 00:43:17.565
But I want to invite our, our audience, uh, to join us00:42:17.565 –> 00:43:19.725
for the second, and then the third conversations00:42:19.725 –> 00:43:20.845
that we’re gonna have, uh,00:42:20.845 –> 00:43:23.005
we have one on July 31st from experience00:42:23.005 –> 00:43:25.725
to impact about reinvention in the second half of life,00:42:25.785 –> 00:43:29.165
and one on August the 13th about community as strategy, uh,00:42:29.165 –> 00:43:30.605
leadership beyond the institution00:42:30.795 –> 00:43:32.845
that you can watch these videos,00:42:33.145 –> 00:43:35.445
on the Distinguished Leaders webpage,00:42:35.545 –> 00:43:37.565
and find out what’s next in this webinar series.00:42:37.745 –> 00:43:38.885
Uh, so for now, I just want00:42:38.885 –> 00:43:42.085
to extend a huge thank thank you, uh, to Julian Hurst.00:42:42.085 –> 00:43:43.405
John Rockford, same as Toronto.00:42:43.505 –> 00:43:45.085
Uh, thank you so much for joining us today.00:42:45.085 –> 00:43:46.885
Help us find a little bit of hope00:42:46.905 –> 00:43:49.485
and some innovative solutions in workforce housing00:42:49.665 –> 00:43:51.645
for our nation. Thank you very much.00:42:52.215 –> 00:43:53.365
Thank you. Hi. Thanks for00:42:53.365 –> 00:43:54.365
Having me. Thank00:42:54.365 –> 00:43:55.085
you. Thank you very much.
Making Impact: A Session with Kamy Akhavan
Date: March 27, 2024
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00:00:05.225 –> 00:00:06.245
Hey, welcome everybody.00:00:06.345 –> 00:00:08.045
If you’re just joining us, um,00:00:08.575 –> 00:00:11.445
we’re just gonna give people a couple of minutes to arrive,00:00:11.705 –> 00:00:13.085
but thank you for being here today.00:00:25.135 –> 00:00:26.855
A few more people coming into the waiting room.00:00:43.135 –> 00:00:45.225
Hope everybody’s having a good day so far.00:00:45.845 –> 00:00:48.345
Um, maybe, uh, if you,00:00:48.345 –> 00:00:50.345
if you wouldn’t mind putting in the chat where you’re,00:00:50.345 –> 00:00:53.865
where you’re calling in from, we’d love to, we’d love to see00:00:53.865 –> 00:00:54.905
where people are coming from.00:01:15.235 –> 00:01:15.455
Um,00:01:21.615 –> 00:01:22.395
lot of California.00:01:24.485 –> 00:01:29.245
Yeah, Chicago. Nice.00:01:29.805 –> 00:01:30.645
I just left Chicago.00:01:36.065 –> 00:01:38.275
Um, what do you think, Sarah?00:01:38.275 –> 00:01:40.995
Should we, should we give people one more minute00:01:41.055 –> 00:01:42.995
or just get going and let them join?00:01:44.395 –> 00:01:45.595
I think let’s kick it off.00:01:46.895 –> 00:01:51.515
All right. Um, yeah. I’m, I copy, I see you note.00:01:51.575 –> 00:01:55.835
Um, I am also dialing in from, uh, from the, from USC today,00:01:55.855 –> 00:01:58.435
as I think will probably be pretty evident from behind me.00:01:58.495 –> 00:02:00.315
Um, I am Tara Hein-Phillips.00:02:00.495 –> 00:02:01.515
I’m the Executive Director00:02:01.515 –> 00:02:05.795
for continuing education here at USC Online.00:02:06.135 –> 00:02:07.955
Um, I oversee, I like00:02:07.955 –> 00:02:11.555
to say I oversee all the strange programs at, uh, at USC00:02:11.975 –> 00:02:13.595
and the Distinguished Leaders Program.00:02:14.315 –> 00:02:17.395
Although, you know, not, not strange necessarily, it is a,00:02:17.555 –> 00:02:19.315
a different kind of program for the university.00:02:19.815 –> 00:02:23.115
Um, really focusing on, you know, thinking about00:02:23.625 –> 00:02:26.235
your next chapter or all of our next chapters.00:02:26.415 –> 00:02:30.115
Um, and the, you know, we think that the reason00:02:30.265 –> 00:02:32.715
that this program is so unique is00:02:32.985 –> 00:02:34.515
that it’s the first time you get00:02:34.515 –> 00:02:37.435
to experience university just for the sheer love00:02:37.435 –> 00:02:39.995
of learning, just for the sheer experience of it,00:02:40.135 –> 00:02:41.995
for the experience of being with other people,00:02:42.255 –> 00:02:43.475
and hopefully, um,00:02:43.475 –> 00:02:45.715
having some great experiences along the way that,00:02:45.745 –> 00:02:47.275
that help you figure out what00:02:47.275 –> 00:02:48.675
that next step of the journey looks like.00:02:49.455 –> 00:02:54.075
Um, I am here joined by Sarah Sturm, who’s my, um,00:02:54.305 –> 00:02:57.395
program director, uh, exactly four weeks into the job.00:02:57.615 –> 00:03:00.245
So, uh, she can, she can give a little wave,00:03:01.065 –> 00:03:02.085
uh, up there in the corner.00:03:02.175 –> 00:03:04.325
She’s in my corner, not sure where she is for you.00:03:04.755 –> 00:03:07.085
I’ll say hi. So I actually show up in everyone’s screen.00:03:07.295 –> 00:03:08.925
Thank you, Tara. Welcome everyone.00:03:10.235 –> 00:03:13.805
Yeah. And we are really glad to have you here today.00:03:14.025 –> 00:03:18.485
Um, you were sort of hand selected to participate in this,00:03:18.585 –> 00:03:19.765
in this event today.00:03:19.865 –> 00:03:23.885
Um, and we hope to create these opportunities for, um,00:03:24.185 –> 00:03:25.885
for you to get to know us a little bit better,00:03:26.025 –> 00:03:27.845
and also to get to know our advisors,00:03:27.845 –> 00:03:29.085
who I’ll be introducing in a moment.00:03:29.305 –> 00:03:31.565
And, um, and the kinds of conversations00:03:31.825 –> 00:03:34.725
and the kinds of programming that we expect will be a part00:03:34.745 –> 00:03:38.125
of our Distinguished Leaders program throughout the year.00:03:39.185 –> 00:03:43.645
Um, so yeah, I mean, thank you for, thank you00:03:43.645 –> 00:03:45.925
for already introducing yourselves a bit.00:03:45.985 –> 00:03:48.285
If anybody feels like sharing a little bit more about00:03:48.485 –> 00:03:50.485
themself in the chat, please, please feel free to do that00:03:50.905 –> 00:03:53.325
as we are, uh, getting started.00:03:53.825 –> 00:03:56.725
But I also just wanna introduce our, one of our, our,00:03:56.865 –> 00:04:00.245
our co-host today, Kamy Akhavan, and Kamy00:04:00.245 –> 00:04:02.805
and I have known each other practically since I got here.00:04:02.915 –> 00:04:05.685
He’s been an incredible partner on a number of programs.00:04:05.865 –> 00:04:08.645
Um, but he’s going to be leading our policy00:04:08.705 –> 00:04:11.605
and social good block, uh, at the, the,00:04:12.185 –> 00:04:13.885
on our Distinguished Leaders program.00:04:14.625 –> 00:04:18.845
And he’s also, um, you know, really helping to shape what,00:04:18.875 –> 00:04:21.685
what takes place, uh, in the, the new DC campus00:04:21.735 –> 00:04:24.845
where we will be hosting that part of, uh, the program.00:04:25.785 –> 00:04:29.685
Uh, KA is an expert on issues around polarization,00:04:29.835 –> 00:04:34.165
unconscious bias, uh, politics, nonprofits, leadership,00:04:34.705 –> 00:04:36.605
le uh, media literacy, civics,00:04:36.985 –> 00:04:38.925
and so many more, uh, things like that.00:04:39.185 –> 00:04:43.605
He is also, the c was the CEO of ProCon, uh, dot org, um,00:04:43.605 –> 00:04:46.325
which is the nation’s leading source of ProCon research00:04:46.905 –> 00:04:48.085
on controversial issues.00:04:48.545 –> 00:04:51.765
He is all about getting people in conversation00:04:51.765 –> 00:04:54.005
with each other and, um, you know,00:04:54.265 –> 00:04:56.805
and working, working towards civil discourse and,00:04:56.825 –> 00:05:01.005
and depolarization, um, and is remarkable at that work.00:05:01.065 –> 00:05:03.445
So we’re, we’re very excited to have him on this program.00:05:03.585 –> 00:05:06.885
And also, um, and also obviously here at the university,00:05:07.235 –> 00:05:10.325
he’s the executive director for the USC Dornsife Center00:05:10.345 –> 00:05:11.525
for the Political Future.00:05:11.825 –> 00:05:15.165
Um, and they, that is much of their work centers around, um,00:05:15.165 –> 00:05:17.085
those, these pressing kind of national00:05:17.085 –> 00:05:18.565
and global challenges.00:05:19.185 –> 00:05:22.845
Um, we are also extremely lucky today that Kami was able00:05:22.845 –> 00:05:25.565
to invite his colleague, Robert Tru, uh, who’s the director00:05:25.565 –> 00:05:29.125
of the center, and has had just an incredible career as00:05:29.825 –> 00:05:32.325
an author, a campaign advisor, uh, to00:05:32.345 –> 00:05:35.405
so many top democratic candidates, including Joe Biden00:05:35.505 –> 00:05:38.925
and John Glenn and Barbara Mikulski, and David Dinkins,00:05:38.925 –> 00:05:40.965
and Tom Bradley, and John Kerry and Al Gore00:05:41.065 –> 00:05:43.005
and all the way, you know, uh, back00:05:43.005 –> 00:05:44.725
to George McGovern and Edward Kennedy.00:05:44.825 –> 00:05:48.045
So, we are extremely fortunate, uh, to have both00:05:48.045 –> 00:05:49.365
of you thank you for being here.00:05:49.545 –> 00:05:50.805
And I’m going to let you00:05:51.595 –> 00:05:53.685
introduce yourselves a little bit more as well.00:05:56.565 –> 00:05:58.175
Uh, well, Tara, thank you for the,00:05:58.335 –> 00:05:59.535
a very kind introduction.00:05:59.535 –> 00:06:02.255
And, and hi folks. Uh, good to see you all and meet you all.00:06:02.755 –> 00:06:05.575
Um, this program that you’re learning about today, uh,00:06:05.575 –> 00:06:07.015
we’re all kind of learning about together.00:06:07.125 –> 00:06:10.695
It’s a new program, uh, for USCI am, uh, frankly,00:06:10.705 –> 00:06:13.455
quite excited about it, uh, for a lot of reasons.00:06:13.515 –> 00:06:16.855
But just quickly, I’ll just share a, a short story, uh,00:06:16.865 –> 00:06:19.935
about why I’m excited about it since my, my dad, uh,00:06:19.935 –> 00:06:21.375
grew up in, in south Louisiana.00:06:21.475 –> 00:06:24.655
My dad is a, was an architect, and then became a contractor.00:06:25.395 –> 00:06:28.535
Uh, and then he at some point decided to retire,00:06:28.635 –> 00:06:29.975
and he bought an avocado farm.00:06:30.315 –> 00:06:33.615
And I thought, Hey, my dad’s an avocado farmer now.00:06:33.675 –> 00:06:35.575
He knows nothing about growing avocados.00:06:35.595 –> 00:06:36.615
I’m gonna get him signed up00:06:36.635 –> 00:06:38.535
for a class at the local community college00:06:38.535 –> 00:06:40.175
where he can learn about avocado farming.00:06:40.955 –> 00:06:42.695
And he took the class00:06:43.275 –> 00:06:46.125
and he hated it.00:06:46.385 –> 00:06:48.205
And the reason that he hated it is00:06:48.365 –> 00:06:50.885
’cause he didn’t wanna deal with grades, said, I’m too old00:06:50.905 –> 00:06:52.285
for to be getting grades.00:06:52.525 –> 00:06:54.445
I don’t care about the As, BS, and Cs.00:06:54.525 –> 00:06:56.445
I just wanna learn how to grow these plants,00:06:56.585 –> 00:06:58.805
and I want it to, you want it to be there just00:06:59.065 –> 00:07:00.205
for the learning part of it.00:07:00.205 –> 00:07:02.965
The love of the learning. And I feel like this program is00:07:02.965 –> 00:07:03.965
very much about that.00:07:04.435 –> 00:07:06.885
It’s about doing it for all the reasons00:07:06.885 –> 00:07:08.405
that you really wanna learn.00:07:08.425 –> 00:07:09.725
You’re just deeply curious.00:07:09.945 –> 00:07:12.125
You wanna engage, you kind of wanna explore.00:07:12.545 –> 00:07:14.405
Uh, and that’s what this program is and does.00:07:14.585 –> 00:07:17.645
And what better place to do it than in Washington dc this00:07:17.645 –> 00:07:19.645
new building that USC has invested in.00:07:19.715 –> 00:07:22.445
It’s a major investment. It’s nine stories.00:07:22.985 –> 00:07:24.605
It used to be the National Association00:07:24.605 –> 00:07:25.605
of Broadcasters Building.00:07:25.955 –> 00:07:29.185
It’s a, it is an impressive place.00:07:29.485 –> 00:07:33.905
Uh, on the top floor, there is a, a patio,00:07:33.965 –> 00:07:35.225
an outdoor patio, and the00:07:35.225 –> 00:07:36.545
conference room’s on the top floor.00:07:36.725 –> 00:07:40.545
So if you’re gonna have a conference that is the place in DC00:07:40.545 –> 00:07:43.745
to do it right in DuPont Circle, you can’t get better views00:07:44.335 –> 00:07:45.545
much better unless you go up00:07:45.545 –> 00:07:46.705
to the Washington Monument, right?00:07:46.705 –> 00:07:48.905
It’s a really, uh, really special place to be.00:07:49.445 –> 00:07:52.385
Uh, and it’s ours. So we’re really looking forward to using00:07:52.385 –> 00:07:56.865
that place as the epicenter of exploring the city,00:07:57.185 –> 00:07:59.225
learning about his history, and meeting some of the people00:07:59.285 –> 00:08:01.785
who are driving it politically, uh,00:08:02.005 –> 00:08:04.145
and on the government side, as well00:08:04.145 –> 00:08:05.785
as the NGOs and advocacy sides.00:08:07.025 –> 00:08:10.365
So, uh, one of the things00:08:10.365 –> 00:08:12.885
that I’m especially excited about in our conversation today00:08:13.265 –> 00:08:17.365
is one veteran of that town of Washington, DC someone00:08:17.385 –> 00:08:19.645
who knows it better than almost any other, uh,00:08:19.695 –> 00:08:22.925
human being today, is the legend of, of Bob Trump.00:08:23.065 –> 00:08:25.365
I’m so honored that he has agreed to join us today.00:08:25.665 –> 00:08:26.965
Uh, I think that every day.00:08:27.165 –> 00:08:28.525
So I have the pleasure of, of working00:08:28.525 –> 00:08:30.565
with him here at the Center for the Political Future.00:08:31.025 –> 00:08:35.805
Uh, so, uh, uh, my first question to you, Bob,00:08:35.865 –> 00:08:39.925
is, uh, is what is exciting to you about US00:08:40.755 –> 00:08:43.125
uscs investment in the districts of Columbia?00:08:44.505 –> 00:08:48.155
Well, I think that, uh, USC has become one of the leading00:08:49.075 –> 00:08:50.475
research universities in the country.00:08:51.135 –> 00:08:53.795
Uh, the, I don’t know if any of you saw it,00:08:53.855 –> 00:08:56.405
but undergraduate admissions, I think, was00:08:57.615 –> 00:09:00.825
9.3% of applicants were admitted.00:09:02.135 –> 00:09:06.065
It’s become a very important force, I think, intellectually.00:09:06.645 –> 00:09:10.865
Uh, and I believe the center, uh, is kind00:09:10.865 –> 00:09:14.465
of a leading political force on the West Coast.00:09:15.165 –> 00:09:18.465
Uh, uh, we have major conferences.00:09:18.805 –> 00:09:20.345
We have programs every week,00:09:21.085 –> 00:09:24.785
and obviously that fits very nicely00:09:25.415 –> 00:09:29.545
with having A-A-A-U-S-C center in, in, uh,00:09:31.325 –> 00:09:35.505
pardon me, frog in my throat in Washington, dc.00:09:36.085 –> 00:09:39.585
Uh, so I, I think it’s a very exciting development.00:09:39.585 –> 00:09:44.515
You know, USC had a whole building, and then someone 2000:09:44.535 –> 00:09:46.915
or 25 years ago made the decision to sell it.00:09:48.455 –> 00:09:51.295
I don’t think they got as much money for it00:09:51.675 –> 00:09:56.335
as the new building cost, uh, but it, it was a mistake.00:09:56.395 –> 00:09:57.975
But it’s, it’s now been reversed.00:09:59.365 –> 00:10:02.535
Yeah. Uh, uh, agreed with all of that.00:10:02.595 –> 00:10:06.335
And, um, to get to the substance of what I wanted to talk00:10:06.335 –> 00:10:08.495
with you about today, Bob, is, um, you00:10:08.495 –> 00:10:11.055
and I have had a, a whole lot of conversations, but, uh,00:10:11.115 –> 00:10:12.735
and I cherish all of them because, uh,00:10:13.405 –> 00:10:15.015
even if we cover the same ground,00:10:15.135 –> 00:10:16.175
I feel like I learn new things.00:10:16.595 –> 00:10:20.095
And one of the things I was especially curious about is, um,00:10:21.875 –> 00:10:26.185
you have been a close advisor to some00:10:26.185 –> 00:10:29.375
of the world’s most prominent people, uh,00:10:29.675 –> 00:10:32.455
not just in the United States, but, uh, but abroad as well.00:10:32.455 –> 00:10:34.215
You’ve run campaigns for prime ministers00:10:34.215 –> 00:10:35.295
as well as presidents.00:10:35.415 –> 00:10:36.775
I think you were involved in eight different00:10:36.775 –> 00:10:37.935
presidential campaigns.00:10:38.155 –> 00:10:40.015
Uh, you’ve whispered in a lot of presidents here.00:10:40.115 –> 00:10:43.775
And so you’re, you are a legend in, in democratic politics00:10:43.775 –> 00:10:45.135
and politics in American General.00:10:46.505 –> 00:10:47.605
And I wanted to ask you,00:10:47.635 –> 00:10:51.125
because at some point you stopped doing campaign work,00:10:51.345 –> 00:10:53.325
and you got involved in university life00:10:53.705 –> 00:10:55.285
and transitions are hard.00:10:55.385 –> 00:10:59.245
And I wanted to ask you, what was that transition like00:10:59.265 –> 00:11:01.405
for you, and what was some00:11:01.405 –> 00:11:04.085
of the elements in your thinking about whether this was a,00:11:04.205 –> 00:11:07.925
a good road to take or, or a scary road or bad road to take?00:11:07.995 –> 00:11:09.525
What, what, what, what kind00:11:09.525 –> 00:11:11.565
of went into your thinking about transitioning away00:11:11.565 –> 00:11:12.765
from campaign politics?00:11:13.675 –> 00:11:18.175
Uh, I had, uh, I had done it for decades, uh,00:11:19.275 –> 00:11:23.135
and had been involved in helping to craft State00:11:23.135 –> 00:11:27.455
of the Union messages, uh, media campaigns00:11:27.595 –> 00:11:29.935
for 30 different senators and,00:11:30.475 –> 00:11:32.855
and members of Congress, the mayors00:11:32.855 –> 00:11:34.375
of most major American cities.00:11:35.035 –> 00:11:38.135
Uh, and but before that,00:11:38.435 –> 00:11:43.335
and back when I was in law school, I, uh, I,00:11:43.935 –> 00:11:47.535
I did some teaching at, uh, Boston College in Brandeis00:11:47.715 –> 00:11:48.935
to help pay my way through.00:11:49.595 –> 00:11:51.775
Uh, I don’t think Harvard knew I was doing00:11:51.775 –> 00:11:52.855
it, but I was doing it.00:11:53.465 –> 00:11:57.355
Uh, and subsequently, I, uh,00:11:58.295 –> 00:12:01.475
had some experience, uh, teaching a study group at Harvard,00:12:02.435 –> 00:12:03.435
teaching a course at Yale.00:12:04.215 –> 00:12:07.715
Uh, so it wasn’t as if I had no00:12:08.645 –> 00:12:10.555
connection at all with teaching,00:12:10.755 –> 00:12:13.135
although I hadn’t done it, uh, in years.00:12:13.795 –> 00:12:16.375
Uh, I’d always agreed to go to a class00:12:17.375 –> 00:12:20.115
to talk if someone invited me, uh,00:12:20.935 –> 00:12:22.865
because I thought I owed that to students00:12:23.085 –> 00:12:24.305
and to the next generation.00:12:25.005 –> 00:12:29.755
So, uh, after the, the, the Gore campaign, uh,00:12:30.815 –> 00:12:34.755
uh, and I begged the forgiveness of the Republicans on this,00:12:34.895 –> 00:12:35.955
uh, seminar.00:12:36.295 –> 00:12:37.515
If I say that, uh,00:12:37.895 –> 00:12:39.675
or webinar, if I say00:12:39.675 –> 00:12:42.675
that I think Al Gore was elected just not inaugurated,00:12:43.295 –> 00:12:47.235
but he gracefully for the sake of democracy, accepted00:12:47.775 –> 00:12:49.235
the Supreme Court decision.00:12:49.895 –> 00:12:54.435
Uh, I, I, I decided that I was gonna do00:12:55.375 –> 00:12:57.715
one more presidential campaign.00:12:58.255 –> 00:13:02.435
And in fact, in the Democratic field in 2004, four00:13:02.435 –> 00:13:06.195
of the people who ran, had been my clients in Senate races,00:13:06.735 –> 00:13:10.115
uh, and I worked for, for John Kerry.00:13:10.735 –> 00:13:14.955
Uh, and, you know, we came within a football stadium00:13:15.575 –> 00:13:19.355
in Ohio of, of becoming the first00:13:19.985 –> 00:13:24.555
candidate, uh, to unseed an incumbent president in a time00:13:24.555 –> 00:13:27.235
of war when that war was still relatively popular.00:13:28.075 –> 00:13:32.875
Uh, my friend John Sexton, who was the president of NYU,00:13:34.295 –> 00:13:37.595
uh, and before that, the dean of NYU Law School,00:13:37.655 –> 00:13:42.445
and someone I had known since college really, uh, had00:13:43.705 –> 00:13:47.515
been pressing me to say, at some point,00:13:47.535 –> 00:13:48.635
you ought to do something else.00:13:49.695 –> 00:13:53.275
Uh, now if Kerry had won that election, I00:13:54.345 –> 00:13:57.435
suspect that I probably wouldn’t have done something else.00:13:57.615 –> 00:14:00.715
But when he didn’t win it, uh, it seemed like a good time00:14:01.535 –> 00:14:03.795
to, to, to move on.00:14:04.335 –> 00:14:09.225
Uh, and John, uh, wanted me to come00:14:09.225 –> 00:14:13.745
and teach in the graduate school at NYU, uh, which I did.00:14:14.285 –> 00:14:18.945
Uh, and for me, it was a relatively easy transition, maybe00:14:18.945 –> 00:14:21.465
because I taught before, and maybe00:14:21.465 –> 00:14:24.185
because I run my mouth fairly effectively, Mm-Hmm.00:14:24.405 –> 00:14:27.625
Uh, but it, it was, it was fine.00:14:27.685 –> 00:14:31.345
And it was, it was invigorating to have contacts00:14:31.345 –> 00:14:33.665
with the next generation of,00:14:34.125 –> 00:14:35.745
of young people who were coming up.00:14:36.325 –> 00:14:38.865
Uh, and then about, and,00:14:38.865 –> 00:14:43.825
and the way we left Washington was, uh, Ted Kennedy gave a,00:14:44.025 –> 00:14:46.465
a, a big party at his house,00:14:47.165 –> 00:14:49.145
uh, in Cama.00:14:49.805 –> 00:14:52.005
And, uh, my wife and I,00:14:52.015 –> 00:14:56.325
after the party went outside, uh, got in a00:14:57.125 –> 00:14:59.805
a a a car that I had hired, uh,00:14:59.945 –> 00:15:02.405
and were driven to New York City, uh,00:15:02.585 –> 00:15:04.605
to our new apartment on 15th Street.00:15:05.065 –> 00:15:07.045
Uh, we had sold our house in Washington.00:15:07.745 –> 00:15:09.295
Uh, and00:15:09.705 –> 00:15:13.855
after about eight years there, uh, Elizabeth Garrett,00:15:13.995 –> 00:15:18.535
who was then the provost at USC, uh, called me in New York00:15:18.595 –> 00:15:22.055
and said, can I see you and I for a cup of coffee?00:15:22.115 –> 00:15:25.535
And I said, sure. And she said to me,00:15:26.225 –> 00:15:28.895
we’ve looked at your syllabi, uh,00:15:29.505 –> 00:15:31.455
we’ve looked at your teaching evaluations.00:15:32.515 –> 00:15:34.775
We have a, a an endowed chair00:15:34.775 –> 00:15:36.775
that we think you’d be perfect for.00:15:36.885 –> 00:15:40.535
Well, my wife and I were always gonna retire in California.00:15:40.895 –> 00:15:42.135
I, I mean, I grew up here.00:15:42.795 –> 00:15:46.455
Uh, Mary Louise was the society columns.00:15:46.515 –> 00:15:50.535
The LA Times in the 1980s we’re always gonna come back.00:15:51.235 –> 00:15:55.415
Uh, and SC was, had become a very exciting place.00:15:56.115 –> 00:15:59.335
Uh, so I said to her, well,00:15:59.415 –> 00:16:00.535
I have to go home and ask my wife.00:16:00.535 –> 00:16:02.855
But I’m pretty sure the answer is yes, but,00:16:04.115 –> 00:16:08.415
and so I’m now basically in my 10th year,00:16:08.995 –> 00:16:12.855
uh, teaching at USC, uh, I, I didn’t think00:16:12.855 –> 00:16:15.895
that when I was 80 I would still be working.00:16:16.555 –> 00:16:17.775
Uh, and,00:16:18.835 –> 00:16:22.055
but I am, uh, what’s the difference?00:16:22.835 –> 00:16:27.135
Uh, well, a lot of the skills that you had to have00:16:27.915 –> 00:16:31.175
to do what I did in politics actually apply00:16:31.195 –> 00:16:33.885
to something like being the director00:16:33.885 –> 00:16:35.285
of the Center for the Political Future.00:16:36.185 –> 00:16:37.565
You gotta interact with people.00:16:38.145 –> 00:16:39.925
You gotta have some sense of vision.00:16:40.025 –> 00:16:42.405
You gotta have a notion of00:16:43.685 –> 00:16:45.125
themes you wanna put out there,00:16:45.395 –> 00:16:47.205
what subjects you wanna discuss.00:16:47.825 –> 00:16:50.045
So I could draw on that as well.00:16:50.305 –> 00:16:55.005
And the teaching part, uh, I just love, I mean,00:16:55.195 –> 00:16:57.285
it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s wonderful.00:16:57.285 –> 00:17:00.365
It’s engaging and, and it’s rewarding.00:17:00.445 –> 00:17:02.205
I mean, I, I’ll tell you a story.00:17:02.325 –> 00:17:05.425
I had a, a student a few years ago, uh,00:17:06.525 –> 00:17:07.905
and he came to me00:17:07.905 –> 00:17:10.585
and said his parents were very upset with him00:17:10.975 –> 00:17:13.825
because they were, uh, immigrants00:17:13.885 –> 00:17:15.305
who were in Silicon Valley,00:17:16.205 –> 00:17:19.985
and they thought he should be majoring in computer science00:17:20.205 –> 00:17:23.505
or math, but he wanted a major in, uh,00:17:23.735 –> 00:17:25.585
political science or politics.00:17:25.965 –> 00:17:30.545
And, uh, so I helped him, uh,00:17:31.225 –> 00:17:33.065
I recommended him, uh,00:17:34.005 –> 00:17:36.185
and he went to work first for Nancy Pelosi,00:17:36.245 –> 00:17:37.905
and then for the Democratic00:17:38.185 –> 00:17:39.585
Congressional Campaign Committee.00:17:40.085 –> 00:17:42.745
Uh, and now he’s a speech writer to one00:17:42.745 –> 00:17:44.625
of the leading governors in the country.00:17:45.205 –> 00:17:47.265
Uh, and his parents are quite proud of him.00:17:47.805 –> 00:17:49.885
And I think a little surprised, uh,00:17:50.905 –> 00:17:53.205
the center itself was, was an idea.00:17:53.545 –> 00:17:57.045
The, the dean called me in November of00:17:57.715 –> 00:18:00.615
2016 and said, uh, I want you00:18:00.615 –> 00:18:03.375
to take over the Unru Institute of Politics, reimagine it,00:18:03.915 –> 00:18:05.935
uh, make it a real center00:18:06.635 –> 00:18:10.295
for major political conversation on the West Coast, uh,00:18:10.985 –> 00:18:14.935
which is, you know, once again, the same kind00:18:14.935 –> 00:18:16.895
of skills you have in campaigns.00:18:17.315 –> 00:18:18.895
You gotta have a sense of where you want to go,00:18:18.925 –> 00:18:21.055
what your goal is, how you’re gonna get there,00:18:21.055 –> 00:18:22.215
what you’re gonna say to people.00:18:22.715 –> 00:18:27.165
Uh, so the transition wasn’t very hard for me.00:18:27.785 –> 00:18:32.295
Um, maybe because I had, uh, a variety00:18:32.355 –> 00:18:34.815
of experiences that helped prepare me for it.00:18:35.255 –> 00:18:38.015
I would add this, I think almost everybody00:18:39.835 –> 00:18:42.095
who has had a successful leadership career,00:18:42.365 –> 00:18:46.015
whether it’s in the private sector, in the public sector,00:18:46.675 –> 00:18:50.895
uh, has skills they may not even understand they have00:18:51.565 –> 00:18:54.335
that can be applied to new ventures00:18:54.555 –> 00:18:56.215
and to doing new and different things.00:18:57.035 –> 00:18:59.575
Uh, I’ve sort of discovered that in myself,00:19:00.075 –> 00:19:01.735
and I’ve seen it in other people as well.00:19:04.445 –> 00:19:06.985
Um, I, I appreciate that response very much, Bob.00:19:06.985 –> 00:19:08.745
And I wanted to ask a couple follow ups,00:19:08.745 –> 00:19:10.545
and then if I can, I’ll share my own, uh,00:19:10.545 –> 00:19:11.705
story about transitions.00:19:11.805 –> 00:19:16.415
But, uh, the question I have is,00:19:16.795 –> 00:19:19.175
you know, you, the campaign work that you were00:19:19.175 –> 00:19:20.215
so immersed in,00:19:21.835 –> 00:19:24.375
and all the times I’ve seen people ask you,00:19:24.675 –> 00:19:26.655
can you just help me with this one campaign?00:19:26.715 –> 00:19:28.615
You know, can, would you come back for me?00:19:28.755 –> 00:19:30.215
Can you do this for me? Uh,00:19:30.215 –> 00:19:32.415
you’ve been pretty clear about delineating, like,00:19:32.445 –> 00:19:34.895
this is my new life, you know, uh,00:19:35.135 –> 00:19:37.735
I am, do anything to you.00:19:37.735 –> 00:19:40.815
Tell me you are focused on, uh, on00:19:41.755 –> 00:19:42.855
the choice that you’ve made.00:19:43.275 –> 00:19:46.335
Um, so I wanted to ask you about, about that.00:19:46.755 –> 00:19:51.295
How much do you pine for the old days of campaign work?00:19:51.475 –> 00:19:53.255
Or, and, and how easy was that00:19:53.275 –> 00:19:54.535
to just say, no, I’m done with that.00:19:55.675 –> 00:19:57.015
Oh, I don’t pine for it.00:19:57.195 –> 00:19:59.295
Uh, I take a great interest in it.00:19:59.495 –> 00:20:02.255
I talk to folks who were very involved.00:20:02.355 –> 00:20:05.255
My former partner, Mike Donald, uh,00:20:06.155 –> 00:20:09.215
is probably the closest political advisor, uh,00:20:09.235 –> 00:20:10.815
and strategist for Joe Biden.00:20:11.395 –> 00:20:14.495
And until he left for the campaign, the reelection campaign00:20:15.035 –> 00:20:17.535
had the office next to the Presidents in the White House.00:20:18.195 –> 00:20:22.335
Uh, and so I still talk with all my old friends, people00:20:22.355 –> 00:20:23.735
who are involved in all of this.00:20:24.355 –> 00:20:29.175
Uh, and, but I, I don’t, I don’t need to go back.00:20:29.575 –> 00:20:33.655
I mean, at this stage in my life, uh, I am,00:20:34.195 –> 00:20:37.255
I’m very lucky to have something00:20:37.255 –> 00:20:42.015
that I find really interesting to do, that I’ve been able00:20:42.015 –> 00:20:46.935
to do it now for like, well, 2005 to now 19 years.00:20:47.825 –> 00:20:52.295
Uh, and so I, no, I, I,00:20:52.375 –> 00:20:53.535
I don’t need to go back now.00:20:53.535 –> 00:20:57.805
Look, if, if Ted Kennedy were still alive00:20:57.865 –> 00:21:02.005
and were younger, and he was in trouble in a political00:21:02.325 –> 00:21:06.685
campaign as he was in 1994, when Mitt Romney at one point,00:21:06.745 –> 00:21:08.765
was actually a point ahead of him, uh,00:21:09.265 –> 00:21:10.685
he was one of my closest friends.00:21:10.985 –> 00:21:13.285
So if that kind of situation occurred,00:21:13.305 –> 00:21:17.645
but I can’t imagine it, uh, uh, yeah,00:21:17.765 –> 00:21:19.205
I would be tempted to help, not00:21:19.205 –> 00:21:21.325
because of a desire to do it, but00:21:21.325 –> 00:21:23.165
because of a felt sense of obligation.00:21:23.875 –> 00:21:27.965
Yeah. Well, you, you had mentioned the word curiosity, um,00:21:28.065 –> 00:21:30.045
and how you find what you do now.00:21:30.105 –> 00:21:34.005
So interesting. Um, what about in terms of impact?00:21:34.385 –> 00:21:36.805
Um, if you told Bill Clinton, Hey,00:21:36.925 –> 00:21:38.725
I think you should insert this into the State00:21:38.725 –> 00:21:40.445
of the Union speech, then he would take00:21:40.445 –> 00:21:41.725
that into consideration,00:21:41.905 –> 00:21:44.565
and tens of millions of people would hear it.00:21:44.865 –> 00:21:48.045
Uh, now your classes are full every semester,00:21:48.105 –> 00:21:49.645
but that’s, that’s 8000:21:49.705 –> 00:21:51.685
or a hundred students, you know, so this,00:21:51.785 –> 00:21:53.205
the scale is different.00:21:53.205 –> 00:21:56.685
And I wonder how you think about, uh, scale of impact, uh,00:21:56.785 –> 00:21:58.445
in, in this or new career?00:21:59.475 –> 00:22:00.605
Well, who knows which00:22:00.625 –> 00:22:05.245
of the students is gonna have their own kind of impact, uh,00:22:05.825 –> 00:22:07.765
10, 15, 20 years from now?00:22:08.425 –> 00:22:11.645
Uh, and I think there are seasons in life,00:22:12.505 –> 00:22:17.205
and I, you know, I was, I was very young when00:22:17.965 –> 00:22:21.245
I was George McGovern’s speech writer in 1972.00:22:22.065 –> 00:22:25.725
Uh, in fact, we, as you all know, we lost 49 states.00:22:26.005 –> 00:22:27.765
I I always say that’s probably00:22:27.765 –> 00:22:29.605
because we were a children’s crusade.00:22:30.205 –> 00:22:33.605
I mean, Gary, Gary Hart was, I think 32,00:22:33.625 –> 00:22:34.965
and he was the campaign manager.00:22:35.545 –> 00:22:38.885
Our pollster was 21 and hadn’t yet graduated from Harvard.00:22:39.465 –> 00:22:43.055
Uh, so I had a long run in,00:22:43.755 –> 00:22:45.215
in politics and,00:22:45.435 –> 00:22:49.655
and, uh, it’s something I cared about all my life.00:22:51.305 –> 00:22:52.885
But now I can have an impact.00:22:53.045 –> 00:22:54.645
I mean, I had a student yesterday00:22:55.255 –> 00:22:59.805
after class say, I’m really learning a lot about politics00:22:59.865 –> 00:23:02.925
and about campaigns in this class, and,00:23:04.065 –> 00:23:06.565
and I hope you’ll help me begin00:23:06.565 –> 00:23:08.445
to get my own start in doing this.00:23:08.785 –> 00:23:10.605
And so, who knows,00:23:10.605 –> 00:23:12.845
maybe he’ll be whispering into a pre’s ear someday.00:23:13.605 –> 00:23:15.565
I, I don’t know. And and with Clinton, by the way,00:23:15.885 –> 00:23:17.045
he didn’t whisper in his ear.00:23:18.405 –> 00:23:22.045
I mean, he, he, the State of the Union, uh, for example,00:23:22.305 –> 00:23:24.365
and the, you know, the one I, the,00:23:24.505 –> 00:23:28.805
the most critical one was the one that came like eight00:23:28.805 –> 00:23:31.285
or 10 days after the Monica Lewinsky revelations.00:23:31.905 –> 00:23:35.605
Uh, and we worked very hard on that.00:23:35.825 –> 00:23:38.805
But the way he always edited was in the White House Theater,00:23:39.475 –> 00:23:40.735
and he would stand at the podium00:23:41.995 –> 00:23:44.935
and, you know, he’d be reading00:23:44.965 –> 00:23:46.205
through and he’d say, well, I don’t know.00:23:46.395 –> 00:23:48.405
What did you think of that? Or what about this?00:23:48.625 –> 00:23:50.965
Or, you know, we had a big discussion about,00:23:51.335 –> 00:23:56.085
there were some people sending in notes saying, uh, you have00:23:56.085 –> 00:23:58.245
to address the Lewinsky issue in the,00:23:58.265 –> 00:23:59.805
in the State of the Union speech.00:24:00.465 –> 00:24:04.205
And I said, look, if we do that, that’s the whole story.00:24:04.985 –> 00:24:07.205
Uh, there, there is no other story,00:24:07.465 –> 00:24:12.035
but that, uh, far more important, what you have to do,00:24:12.035 –> 00:24:14.195
number one, is get the Democrats on your side.00:24:15.195 –> 00:24:20.135
And so please talk about, uh, saving social security,00:24:20.795 –> 00:24:22.815
uh, and increasing the minimum wage00:24:23.365 –> 00:24:24.455
very early in the speech.00:24:24.555 –> 00:24:28.215
So they get up, uh, and, and applaud.00:24:28.635 –> 00:24:30.735
And secondly, you have to have a message to the country.00:24:30.835 –> 00:24:34.615
And he ended by talking about John Glenn, who, uh,00:24:34.715 –> 00:24:36.655
was a senator, uh, a client of mine,00:24:36.995 –> 00:24:40.695
but who, uh, was gonna go back into space at the age of,00:24:40.935 –> 00:24:42.815
I think 78, uh,00:24:43.635 –> 00:24:45.975
and said, Godspeed, John Glenn.00:24:46.045 –> 00:24:47.615
Because the second thing he had00:24:47.615 –> 00:24:48.815
to do was convince the country00:24:49.605 –> 00:24:51.215
that he could still be president.00:24:51.755 –> 00:24:54.895
Uh, and, uh, he did a terrific job.00:24:54.915 –> 00:24:58.135
And the speech was, was, was a great success.00:24:58.675 –> 00:25:03.175
Uh, so, you know, you have those moments00:25:03.275 –> 00:25:07.495
and memories, uh, and, and, and,00:25:07.795 –> 00:25:09.095
and, and you have friendships.00:25:09.835 –> 00:25:13.975
Uh, but that doesn’t mean you can’t move on and, and,00:25:14.395 –> 00:25:15.495
and do something else.00:25:15.675 –> 00:25:18.335
Now, what I’m doing now is related to what I did then,00:25:20.155 –> 00:25:24.095
but you people could, you know, I could probably teach like00:25:25.115 –> 00:25:28.895
the history of Western religion if I, you know, if, if, if,00:25:29.555 –> 00:25:30.855
if someone would let me do it.00:25:31.355 –> 00:25:34.745
Uh, so it doesn’t have to be the same thing you’ve done00:25:34.745 –> 00:25:36.385
before or closely related00:25:37.145 –> 00:25:38.465
to the same thing you’ve done before.00:25:39.165 –> 00:25:43.085
But I, you know, I, anyway, that,00:25:43.585 –> 00:25:45.845
that’s a long-winded answer to a short question.00:25:46.505 –> 00:25:48.685
No, it’s a, it’s a great answer to a short question,00:25:48.895 –> 00:25:49.925
Satya, thank you for it.00:25:49.945 –> 00:25:53.125
Um, you mentioned two words that has kind of stuck with me,00:25:53.125 –> 00:25:54.125
and I’ll just share quickly.00:25:54.305 –> 00:25:57.005
One of them was, uh, again, the word curiosity.00:25:57.385 –> 00:25:58.725
Uh, it reminds me of one00:25:58.725 –> 00:26:00.445
of the most remarkable people I’ve ever met,00:26:00.565 –> 00:26:02.725
a guy named Maury Markoff, who lives here in Los Angeles.00:26:02.985 –> 00:26:05.925
If you read Steve Lopez’s column in the LA Times, uh,00:26:05.955 –> 00:26:07.325
Maury’s been featured many times.00:26:07.515 –> 00:26:09.125
He’s 107 years old.00:26:09.385 –> 00:26:13.085
Uh, he’s voted for Franklin Roosevelt twice.00:26:13.545 –> 00:26:15.245
He remembers when prohibition ended.00:26:15.705 –> 00:26:18.365
Uh, and I remember about maybe 10 years00:26:18.365 –> 00:26:20.445
or so ago, uh, Maury had a health scare.00:26:20.745 –> 00:26:23.565
And, uh, he was in the hospital, and he flatlined.00:26:23.745 –> 00:26:26.765
And, uh, we thought, you know, Maury lived an amazing life,00:26:26.985 –> 00:26:29.925
uh, and, uh, and I’m very sad to see him go.00:26:30.305 –> 00:26:33.885
Uh, and then as we’re lamenting Maury,00:26:34.745 –> 00:26:37.445
he revives, uh, and we’re like, wow.00:26:37.475 –> 00:26:39.245
Then you see the beep beep, it starts.00:26:39.345 –> 00:26:40.885
And we’re like, and,00:26:41.065 –> 00:26:43.525
and he was, he was immediately coaching.00:26:43.585 –> 00:26:47.565
He said, Maury, Kiki, you’re back. What happened?00:26:48.025 –> 00:26:51.165
And he said, I was still curious about a few things.00:26:51.865 –> 00:26:55.085
I’m like, wow, curiosity re revived the00:26:55.085 –> 00:26:56.325
man, a man from the brink.00:26:56.545 –> 00:26:58.205
Uh, it is a powerful motivator.00:26:58.425 –> 00:27:01.285
Uh, and it, it, it’s speaks to a lot of00:27:01.285 –> 00:27:02.965
what drives, uh, so many of us.00:27:03.585 –> 00:27:06.725
Um, the other word that you mentioned was, uh, was impact.00:27:06.865 –> 00:27:09.645
Um, and for me, you know, I had worked,00:27:09.705 –> 00:27:11.205
and you know this Bob, but I had worked in00:27:11.715 –> 00:27:13.525
with internet casinos for a while.00:27:13.645 –> 00:27:14.885
I worked in the film industry.00:27:15.125 –> 00:27:16.485
I was on the film distribution side.00:27:16.825 –> 00:27:21.245
Um, I worked in management consulting, uh, and, uh,00:27:21.385 –> 00:27:26.125
and then I fell in, uh, with, uh, pro con.org as a CEO.00:27:26.125 –> 00:27:27.685
And I ran that place for 14 years.00:27:28.105 –> 00:27:30.405
And for Impact, now, we were doing pro00:27:30.405 –> 00:27:32.765
and con research on 80 plus different topics.00:27:33.025 –> 00:27:36.605
My daily audience was about 250,000 people a day.00:27:36.825 –> 00:27:39.485
And so, over the course of my time, there’s,00:27:39.485 –> 00:27:41.245
it’s 300 million plus people.00:27:41.405 –> 00:27:44.845
I worked with over 13,000 schools in all 50 states in about00:27:44.885 –> 00:27:45.885
a hundred different countries.00:27:46.045 –> 00:27:49.125
I was, it was the immediate interview.00:27:49.125 –> 00:27:52.285
Anytime something happened on one of these topics, such00:27:52.285 –> 00:27:54.925
and such state just legalized marijuana, let’s call commun00:27:54.925 –> 00:27:57.005
and ask him what he thinks about what happened.00:27:57.165 –> 00:27:59.205
I know there was a school shooting in this state,00:27:59.295 –> 00:28:01.245
let’s call Common, ask him about gun control.00:28:01.305 –> 00:28:03.645
And oh, they just changed immigration policies.00:28:03.645 –> 00:28:05.325
Let’s call common, ask him about immigration.00:28:05.465 –> 00:28:08.285
So I was in the middle of all these, uh, hot button issues,00:28:08.345 –> 00:28:11.005
and I felt very, uh, I important00:28:11.005 –> 00:28:12.965
because I was the non-partisan voice,00:28:12.965 –> 00:28:16.005
and our research was intended to fuel and form citizenship.00:28:16.505 –> 00:28:19.295
Um, but here I am at sc, you know,00:28:19.315 –> 00:28:23.255
and if I have 30 students in a class, I think that’s great.00:28:23.435 –> 00:28:25.975
Uh, so I, I think about impact very00:28:25.975 –> 00:28:27.095
differently to your point.00:28:27.455 –> 00:28:30.975
’cause you thought about who is your influence reaching?00:28:31.315 –> 00:28:34.775
And if it’s reaching the person who may be another president00:28:34.935 –> 00:28:37.695
or another CEO or another, the great writer00:28:37.755 –> 00:28:40.335
or playwright, it could be a, a person of influence.00:28:40.795 –> 00:28:43.335
The depth of that, uh, kind00:28:43.335 –> 00:28:46.215
of interaction matters more than the breadth00:28:46.215 –> 00:28:47.695
that I was able to achieve before.00:28:47.835 –> 00:28:50.975
And, and I wonder if you think about, uh, about that too,00:28:51.315 –> 00:28:53.535
the sort of breadth and depth, uh,00:28:53.595 –> 00:28:55.615
and the, the quality of interaction00:28:55.765 –> 00:28:58.975
that you might have in a, in a second act or third act.00:28:59.565 –> 00:29:02.695
Well, I, you know, I want us to have some breadth, uh,00:29:03.875 –> 00:29:05.415
the dean’s notion of the academy00:29:05.475 –> 00:29:09.015
and the public square, the idea that universities ought00:29:09.015 –> 00:29:12.655
to be active citizens, uh, in the public dialogue00:29:12.655 –> 00:29:16.215
and ought to contribute, uh, uh, which was so true,00:29:16.315 –> 00:29:19.935
for example, in the 1960s and is less true today.00:29:20.515 –> 00:29:24.775
Uh, it is part of what motivates us,00:29:25.515 –> 00:29:27.055
uh, to model00:29:27.195 –> 00:29:31.135
and try to advance a politics where we respect each other00:29:31.715 –> 00:29:32.815
and we respect the truth.00:29:33.595 –> 00:29:37.615
Uh, so we hold a Major Warsaw conference on politics every00:29:37.615 –> 00:29:40.815
year, uh, after the 2020 election,00:29:40.815 –> 00:29:43.245
we actually had Mark Meadows as a guest.00:29:43.705 –> 00:29:45.565
People didn’t throw roles at each other.00:29:45.995 –> 00:29:48.285
They had a civil conversation about what went on.00:29:49.485 –> 00:29:53.625
Uh, and we have our Climate Forward Conference every year,00:29:54.165 –> 00:29:57.945
uh, and, you know, that gets distributed on00:29:58.925 –> 00:30:01.065
all these conferences and programs.00:30:01.085 –> 00:30:04.465
Our programs get distributed on Facebook, on Zoom.00:30:05.125 –> 00:30:09.465
Uh, and last year we had two of our panels, uh,00:30:10.055 –> 00:30:13.385
from the Climate Forward Conference on, uh,00:30:13.925 –> 00:30:18.305
public television, uh, WETA, the flagship channel00:30:18.465 –> 00:30:19.945
of public television in Washington.00:30:20.605 –> 00:30:25.415
Uh, so I, I, I want to have the breath,00:30:25.675 –> 00:30:28.375
but I, but I also think the depth matters too.00:30:29.195 –> 00:30:33.795
Uh, and, you know, it’s, I often say00:30:33.795 –> 00:30:37.995
that the, the, my generation came00:30:38.115 –> 00:30:40.635
to the party early and stayed a long, long time.00:30:41.745 –> 00:30:45.715
Well, you can have a different party, uh, and you,00:30:45.855 –> 00:30:47.275
and you can still have impact,00:30:47.335 –> 00:30:49.675
and you can still make a difference, uh,00:30:50.685 –> 00:30:54.195
while letting other folks do what you used to do.00:30:54.775 –> 00:30:56.555
Uh, you know?00:30:57.545 –> 00:31:00.555
Yeah. I, I, I think that’s a such a, a good point.00:31:00.555 –> 00:31:03.075
And I wanna follow up on, on one thread there.00:31:03.295 –> 00:31:05.875
Uh, but to back you up on the breadth,00:31:06.095 –> 00:31:08.275
I’m looking at our statistics now.00:31:08.275 –> 00:31:11.795
There’s over a 150,000 people who have seen just the videos00:31:11.975 –> 00:31:13.635
of the, these events that we’ve held00:31:13.655 –> 00:31:16.515
that’s significantly more than the 30 in a classroom.00:31:16.575 –> 00:31:19.715
So I, I see what you’re saying about, about the breadth, um,00:31:20.695 –> 00:31:22.235
uh, that that element is working.00:31:22.335 –> 00:31:24.195
It does need to face more publicly00:31:24.335 –> 00:31:25.955
and influence more hearts and minds.00:31:26.335 –> 00:31:28.795
Um, for the, uh, the question I had00:31:28.795 –> 00:31:30.195
for you is about your connections.00:31:30.295 –> 00:31:33.875
Uh, I’ve, if I ask, do you know so00:31:33.875 –> 00:31:36.155
and so, the answer is almost always yes.00:31:36.295 –> 00:31:37.475
Uh, you know, a lot of people,00:31:37.575 –> 00:31:39.115
and you’ve built up a tremendous network.00:31:39.585 –> 00:31:43.315
That network was very useful to you in campaign world.00:31:43.655 –> 00:31:46.555
But I see that network is extremely useful00:31:46.555 –> 00:31:47.955
to you in your work today.00:31:48.295 –> 00:31:51.475
Uh, and, and I wonder how you think about, um,00:31:51.805 –> 00:31:53.875
those relationships where you,00:31:54.015 –> 00:31:56.035
you are authentically friends with people.00:31:56.265 –> 00:31:58.235
It’s not, you call them when you need something.00:31:58.335 –> 00:32:01.515
You, you call them when you, ’cause you’re thinking of them00:32:01.615 –> 00:32:04.435
and you, you, or are encouraging, or it’s their birthday,00:32:04.455 –> 00:32:06.835
or there’s, let’s go to for a meal or a dinner.00:32:06.835 –> 00:32:08.395
Like you’re authentically friends with them.00:32:08.455 –> 00:32:11.915
And I wonder if you could talk about sort of the, the power00:32:12.095 –> 00:32:15.115
of the friendships and those authentic connections00:32:15.115 –> 00:32:19.115
and how those networks can be useful to you across whatever,00:32:19.535 –> 00:32:22.715
uh, second or third or fourth act a person may have.00:32:23.385 –> 00:32:25.355
Well, I mean, in terms of, for example,00:32:25.355 –> 00:32:27.835
putting our conferences together, I,00:32:28.075 –> 00:32:29.395
I trade on my friendships,00:32:31.095 –> 00:32:34.315
and they’re not all exclusively Democrats.00:32:34.935 –> 00:32:37.395
Uh, I mean, there are conservative Republicans that00:32:37.915 –> 00:32:38.955
I get along with very well,00:32:39.095 –> 00:32:40.805
personally, I don’t agree with ’em.00:32:41.305 –> 00:32:45.645
Uh, although I agree with some of them now, uh,00:32:46.265 –> 00:32:48.045
who, who really do believe that00:32:48.195 –> 00:32:51.165
that democracy is on the line in this election.00:32:51.625 –> 00:32:52.965
Uh, so I,00:32:53.805 –> 00:32:57.365
I shamelessly trade on the friendships, but not cynically.00:32:58.285 –> 00:33:01.445
I mean, every, everybody knows that I’m calling them00:33:01.465 –> 00:33:02.685
to get them to do something.00:33:02.825 –> 00:33:05.565
And quite often, we do get to00:33:06.665 –> 00:33:08.245
get some really terrific people.00:33:08.445 –> 00:33:09.845
I mean, I, I called John Kerry00:33:09.945 –> 00:33:11.765
for our climate conference three years ago,00:33:12.145 –> 00:33:13.645
and I said, I want you to do a keynote.00:33:14.425 –> 00:33:17.925
And he said, fine. He came, uh, and,00:33:18.025 –> 00:33:19.405
and maybe it was four years ago,00:33:19.985 –> 00:33:24.805
and, uh, we filled Boulevard Auditorium, uh, with people00:33:24.805 –> 00:33:27.045
who wanted to hear from, uh, about00:33:27.075 –> 00:33:28.325
what was happening on climate.00:33:28.385 –> 00:33:31.325
And then of course, he went on to be the Biden, uh,00:33:31.835 –> 00:33:33.805
international representative on climate.00:33:33.945 –> 00:33:37.245
And in Doha, they actually achieve some important things.00:33:37.585 –> 00:33:39.125
Now we’ll see whether the world lives up00:33:39.125 –> 00:33:40.685
to the commitments made in Doha,00:33:41.225 –> 00:33:44.005
but that’s a, you know, that’s another story.00:33:44.465 –> 00:33:49.205
Uh, so, you know, if, if, if, if you,00:33:50.995 –> 00:33:54.055
if you met a lot of people, you dealt with a lot of people,00:33:54.775 –> 00:33:59.545
a lot of people became your friends, uh, you can carry00:33:59.545 –> 00:34:02.065
that across the transition into your new life too.00:34:02.445 –> 00:34:05.425
And you’ll find that there are benefits from that. Yeah.00:34:06.035 –> 00:34:07.565
Yeah. I very much agree with that.00:34:07.565 –> 00:34:09.885
And I notice people here kind of nodding their heads along00:34:09.885 –> 00:34:13.365
as as well, because that seems to, to very much be true.00:34:13.565 –> 00:34:16.005
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve contacted people from00:34:16.355 –> 00:34:18.845
nonprofit circles, political circles to come00:34:18.845 –> 00:34:20.405
and speak in, in a class.00:34:20.665 –> 00:34:23.565
Uh, and they’ll do it just because I’m the one asking them.00:34:23.745 –> 00:34:27.015
Uh, and, uh, and so those friendships matter.00:34:27.015 –> 00:34:28.975
They, they will, your friends will show up for you.00:34:29.235 –> 00:34:31.455
Um, and it doesn’t matter what your career is,00:34:31.715 –> 00:34:34.215
the the connection is real, and they’ll show up for you.00:34:34.945 –> 00:34:38.695
Right. I wanted to ask you too, when the dean challenged you00:34:38.715 –> 00:34:42.135
and said, okay, I want you to reimagine the Unru, uh,00:34:42.135 –> 00:34:44.895
Institute of Politics, uh, there was, you know, a handful00:34:44.955 –> 00:34:46.455
of institutes of politics around the country,00:34:46.675 –> 00:34:49.455
and you were challenged with, how do I reimagine it?00:34:49.455 –> 00:34:51.175
That’s a, that’s a big task.00:34:51.635 –> 00:34:54.535
Um, you know, how do you really put this play USC on the00:34:54.555 –> 00:34:57.105
map, uh, with this new vision?00:34:57.685 –> 00:35:02.025
Um, what was your thinking about sort of the, the increments00:35:02.125 –> 00:35:04.385
of how to do that? Do you, well,00:35:04.385 –> 00:35:05.425
It’s like planning, like,00:35:05.605 –> 00:35:07.825
it was like planning a campaign. Okay.00:35:08.335 –> 00:35:09.745
What do, what do you mean by that? Yeah.00:35:09.855 –> 00:35:11.945
What, yeah, what steps are we gonna take?00:35:12.335 –> 00:35:14.185
What, what do we have to put in place?00:35:14.735 –> 00:35:16.065
What steps are we gonna take?00:35:16.175 –> 00:35:18.105
What signature events are we gonna have?00:35:18.725 –> 00:35:20.505
And what’s our defining purpose?00:35:21.565 –> 00:35:25.985
And our defining purpose was, as I said earlier, to model00:35:26.045 –> 00:35:27.865
and advance a politics00:35:28.115 –> 00:35:30.945
where people respect each other and they respect the truth.00:35:31.255 –> 00:35:33.545
Look, I don’t have any illusions that we’re,00:35:33.545 –> 00:35:36.185
we’re single handedly gonna overcome polarization,00:35:36.565 –> 00:35:38.445
but I think, think we can make a contribution.00:35:38.985 –> 00:35:43.685
Uh, and so that’s what I did actually over Christmas,00:35:44.145 –> 00:35:45.645
uh, in 2016.00:35:45.825 –> 00:35:50.165
And then going into early 2017, was, was plan00:35:50.505 –> 00:35:54.845
how we were gonna take, uh, the Uner Institute00:35:54.985 –> 00:35:59.885
and make it a much, uh, more powerful presence, uh,00:35:59.945 –> 00:36:01.085
in the public dialogue.00:36:01.955 –> 00:36:04.205
Yeah. Um, uh,00:36:04.345 –> 00:36:07.405
and the, the way that you responded to that, it struck me00:36:07.405 –> 00:36:12.365
because you talked, you asked, uh, how, why, uh, purpose00:36:13.045 –> 00:36:16.045
questions and, and not so much in the weed questions.00:36:16.105 –> 00:36:17.765
Uh, and so it really says a lot00:36:17.765 –> 00:36:20.845
to me about your leadership style, where it comes from,00:36:21.145 –> 00:36:23.125
it stems from purpose, it stems from mission.00:36:23.235 –> 00:36:25.405
What are we doing here, and why are we doing it?00:36:25.705 –> 00:36:28.125
Uh, and then everything sort of gets built out from there.00:36:28.545 –> 00:36:32.165
Um, and I gotta say, as a, as a leader, um, you,00:36:32.385 –> 00:36:34.325
you trust the people who work for you.00:36:34.585 –> 00:36:38.525
Um, and, uh, I think that was the, the former CEO of 3M,00:36:38.525 –> 00:36:40.125
that was his, his philosophy.00:36:40.185 –> 00:36:42.765
He said, hire smart people and get out of their way.00:36:43.065 –> 00:36:46.565
And I imagine in campaign work, uh, you, it’s, it’s a lot of00:36:46.565 –> 00:36:48.645
that hire, uh, smart people and get outta their way.00:36:49.145 –> 00:36:52.725
Um, do you feel like the, the leadership, uh, skills00:36:52.785 –> 00:36:56.555
and qualities that you have, um, you,00:36:56.575 –> 00:37:00.955
you said you can port over skills into any industry and,00:37:01.015 –> 00:37:02.075
and new career paths.00:37:02.095 –> 00:37:04.435
Do you feel like those, the leadership skills in particular00:37:04.505 –> 00:37:07.355
have, have translated and served you well here at USC?00:37:07.985 –> 00:37:10.195
Well, I kinda let other people judge that,00:37:10.455 –> 00:37:13.955
but my own personal feeling is that they have, uh,00:37:14.175 –> 00:37:17.955
and I like the quote from the CEO of 3M.00:37:18.695 –> 00:37:22.795
Uh, I remember once, uh, having a conversation00:37:22.795 –> 00:37:26.795
with Ted Kennedy and, uh, uh, he was talking about00:37:27.375 –> 00:37:29.155
his standards for hiring people.00:37:29.815 –> 00:37:34.395
Uh, and he said, look, I, I learned a long time ago that if00:37:35.275 –> 00:37:36.635
somebody knows a lot about a subject,00:37:37.375 –> 00:37:39.195
but they’re not very imaginative00:37:39.495 –> 00:37:43.035
or innovative, uh, they’re not gonna do very well.00:37:43.175 –> 00:37:46.035
And if someone’s imaginative, innovative,00:37:46.035 –> 00:37:48.395
and doesn’t yet know the subject, they’ll learn the subject00:37:48.455 –> 00:37:49.915
and they’ll make a big contribution.00:37:50.255 –> 00:37:51.395
Or the other thing he said,00:37:51.695 –> 00:37:55.115
the other thing he said once was, uh, I don’t have00:37:55.115 –> 00:37:56.955
to hire people who agree with me all the time.00:37:57.055 –> 00:37:58.155
In fact, I don’t want that.00:37:58.615 –> 00:38:00.075
He said, I can agree with myself.00:38:00.775 –> 00:38:05.395
Uh, so I think at, at00:38:06.145 –> 00:38:09.475
Kami, as you know, I, I’m not a micromanager.00:38:09.675 –> 00:38:12.955
I think, I think micromanagement gets in the way00:38:12.955 –> 00:38:15.235
of getting things done and stifles00:38:15.295 –> 00:38:16.435
the talents of other people.00:38:18.825 –> 00:38:21.795
Yeah. I, I, Hey. Yeah. Thumbs up. Right? Thumbs up.00:38:21.855 –> 00:38:26.155
Uh, uh, and, uh, to that point, um, a lot of people00:38:26.215 –> 00:38:29.875
who feel like they’re not ready to take that next step, uh,00:38:29.875 –> 00:38:32.715
they don’t know enough about the new field or the new area.00:38:33.215 –> 00:38:35.405
Um, maybe they’re more risk averse,00:38:35.505 –> 00:38:37.725
or they, they just feel un unprepared.00:38:38.185 –> 00:38:41.605
Um, but an opportunity presents itself, uh,00:38:41.705 –> 00:38:43.925
and you either have to go for it, uh,00:38:44.195 –> 00:38:47.125
even though you might feel, uh, I’m not quite ready00:38:47.145 –> 00:38:49.405
for this, uh, but here’s an opportunity, uh,00:38:49.465 –> 00:38:51.405
or do you wait until you’re fully ready?00:38:51.865 –> 00:38:54.165
Um, and I’m thinking about what00:38:54.715 –> 00:38:57.885
someone asked Richard Branson, who is the CEO of Virgin, uh,00:38:57.915 –> 00:38:59.685
that, that question, he says,00:38:59.685 –> 00:39:02.405
when a good opportunity comes along, just say yes00:39:02.905 –> 00:39:04.005
and then figure it out.00:39:04.305 –> 00:39:05.765
Um, and so he had,00:39:05.865 –> 00:39:07.765
but, you know, he’s a risk taker famously.00:39:07.985 –> 00:39:11.085
Uh, what what’s your, uh, thinking, uh, there, Bob,00:39:11.085 –> 00:39:12.925
when you’re ready to take the next step,00:39:13.465 –> 00:39:15.805
how much do you personally feel like you need00:39:15.805 –> 00:39:17.645
to be a hundred percent prepared?00:39:18.035 –> 00:39:21.645
Know, know what you’re getting into Exactly, precisely,00:39:21.785 –> 00:39:23.165
or good opportunity?00:39:23.465 –> 00:39:25.365
Go for it and figure it out. What, what’s your think00:39:25.625 –> 00:39:27.845
If, if, if you do the former, you’ll be paralyzed.00:39:28.945 –> 00:39:31.045
Uh, you’ll, you’ll, you’ll never move.00:39:31.745 –> 00:39:35.805
Uh, but if you’ve had a, a, a, a successful career00:39:36.715 –> 00:39:41.685
that has been rewarding, and you think it’s time to move on,00:39:41.905 –> 00:39:45.325
or you’re gonna retire and an opportunity presents itself00:39:45.345 –> 00:39:49.245
and you find it interesting, take it and then figure it out.00:39:49.395 –> 00:39:52.925
Yeah. And as I said earlier, you will discover that many00:39:52.925 –> 00:39:57.445
of the skills that you’ve developed over the years will work00:39:58.185 –> 00:40:00.485
for you when you take that new opportunity.00:40:01.075 –> 00:40:03.405
Yeah. Yeah. Well said.00:40:03.405 –> 00:40:05.965
Well, at, at this point, uh, well, I could talk00:40:05.965 –> 00:40:08.485
to you all day long, you know, that I do as often as I can,00:40:08.585 –> 00:40:11.925
but I wanna, uh, defer back to Tara, uh,00:40:11.955 –> 00:40:13.285
because I’m sure a lot of people00:40:13.305 –> 00:40:14.845
who are listening have questions as well.00:40:14.865 –> 00:40:17.605
And I don’t wanna monopolize, uh, your time, Bob.00:40:18.395 –> 00:40:21.565
Yeah, no, I’m sure I’m, I’m sure people have questions.00:40:21.565 –> 00:40:24.005
And I would encourage you, if you wanna, I, I, I’ll just,00:40:24.045 –> 00:40:25.645
I mean, there’s, I think it’s a small enough group00:40:25.645 –> 00:40:28.005
that we could just come off mute and, and ask them.00:40:28.645 –> 00:40:33.125
I did, uh, wanna ask one follow up question, just, um, as00:40:33.755 –> 00:40:37.725
just before we start, um, first of all, um, Bob, thank you00:40:37.725 –> 00:40:41.845
for, um, putting all of my job, um, issues in perspective00:40:42.145 –> 00:40:43.285
by, uh, being reminded00:40:43.285 –> 00:40:45.165
what you faced at the State of the Union.00:40:46.025 –> 00:40:48.085
And that was probably like every day00:40:48.085 –> 00:40:49.085
for the next four years.00:40:49.225 –> 00:40:50.885
So, um, it really, yeah.00:40:51.075 –> 00:40:53.085
What a, what an incredible amount of, um,00:40:53.135 –> 00:40:54.285
grace under pressure,00:40:54.285 –> 00:40:55.885
and thank you for sharing those stories with us.00:40:56.605 –> 00:40:58.925
I was, I, I know we spoke about this a little bit earlier,00:40:59.025 –> 00:41:01.205
and I think you, you both touched on this, you know,00:41:01.605 –> 00:41:05.805
I think sometimes it’s hard to know how to make connections00:41:06.065 –> 00:41:09.685
to organizations, and it’s hard to know how to, you know,00:41:09.685 –> 00:41:10.885
you’re, if you’re lucky enough00:41:10.885 –> 00:41:13.125
to get a phone call from a friend that helps you make00:41:13.125 –> 00:41:15.405
that next step, you know, take that next step, that’s great.00:41:15.865 –> 00:41:18.085
But if you, this is an area that you’re interested in,00:41:18.085 –> 00:41:19.885
or social policy, or social good,00:41:19.945 –> 00:41:23.525
or public policy politics, what are some of the ways00:41:23.525 –> 00:41:25.805
that you can think of that someone, you know,00:41:25.835 –> 00:41:29.165
with a vast amount of leadership skill can, can kind00:41:29.165 –> 00:41:30.485
of cross that divide?00:41:32.105 –> 00:41:36.795
Well, you know, I, as I said, I have all00:41:36.795 –> 00:41:39.835
of these links like John Sexton, uh,00:41:40.495 –> 00:41:42.475
who could help me cross that divide.00:41:43.015 –> 00:41:46.915
Uh, but there are a lot of things you can do, uh, you know,00:41:47.295 –> 00:41:51.645
get involved in a campaign, offer your skillset to00:41:52.365 –> 00:41:54.045
a candidate that you care about00:41:54.145 –> 00:41:55.565
and where you can make a difference.00:41:55.985 –> 00:42:00.165
Uh, get involved in, uh, local government, uh,00:42:00.985 –> 00:42:04.045
you know, be, be on an talk to folks00:42:04.045 –> 00:42:07.085
that you know about serving on an advisory committee,00:42:07.145 –> 00:42:09.405
for example, at the state level in an area00:42:09.405 –> 00:42:10.925
of interest that you care about.00:42:11.545 –> 00:42:16.325
Uh, I mean, there are so many different ways in.00:42:16.985 –> 00:42:20.255
And once again, what you did in the past00:42:20.835 –> 00:42:24.575
or what you’ve been doing will give you a lot of contacts00:42:24.845 –> 00:42:26.575
that you probably don’t suspect00:42:26.715 –> 00:42:30.775
or know, can help you make that transition00:42:30.835 –> 00:42:34.135
and can recommend things that you can and should do.00:42:34.755 –> 00:42:38.215
Uh, so that’s, that’s not a perfect answer to your question.00:42:38.875 –> 00:42:43.075
Uh, but, but I think if people are open to it,00:42:43.615 –> 00:42:47.275
if they’ve had, uh, successful leadership roles00:42:48.135 –> 00:42:52.595
in another field, they’re gonna find that chances00:42:52.595 –> 00:42:54.115
to do something else come along.00:42:54.895 –> 00:42:59.595
And, uh, as Richard Branson said, take the risk.00:42:59.895 –> 00:43:00.895
Mm-Hmm.00:43:01.535 –> 00:43:03.385
Yeah, no, thank you. I’m, I’m a big say yes00:43:03.405 –> 00:43:06.865
and figure it out person myself, so I, I appreciate that.00:43:07.405 –> 00:43:10.225
Um, does anyone have questions for either KA00:43:10.285 –> 00:43:12.265
or Bob at this point?00:43:13.385 –> 00:43:14.665
I can ask loads more, otherwise.00:43:15.185 –> 00:43:18.785
I do. I’m a bit, uh, embarrassed to ask.00:43:19.205 –> 00:43:22.095
So what are we here for? What are we doing00:43:27.395 –> 00:43:29.175
In this conversation or in the world00:43:30.135 –> 00:43:31.135
In this conversation?00:43:31.865 –> 00:43:33.675
Well, I mean, I think the reason00:43:33.945 –> 00:43:37.315
that we’re hosting these events are to give people a sense00:43:37.315 –> 00:43:38.435
of the kinds of rooms00:43:38.735 –> 00:43:40.275
and conversations that we hope00:43:40.275 –> 00:43:42.395
to offer on the Distinguished Leaders Program.00:43:42.935 –> 00:43:46.275
The kinds of, um, window, a little bit of a window into00:43:46.585 –> 00:43:48.915
what it might feel like to be with a group of people00:43:48.945 –> 00:43:52.355
that are your peers, that are leaders in the world, um,00:43:52.975 –> 00:43:54.675
and the types of people we’ll bring in00:43:54.675 –> 00:43:58.715
to have conversations, not just about their background and,00:43:58.775 –> 00:44:00.195
and what they’ve done, but also00:44:00.335 –> 00:44:03.155
who we hope will be helping people to transition00:44:03.155 –> 00:44:04.835
to the next phase of what they want to do.00:44:05.135 –> 00:44:06.475
So that’s really the purpose00:44:06.535 –> 00:44:09.075
of today’s conversation more than anything else.00:44:10.755 –> 00:44:12.055
Can you get a little bit more specific,00:44:13.525 –> 00:44:15.465
Um, about the program itself?00:44:15.695 –> 00:44:16.995
Yeah. Yeah.00:44:17.415 –> 00:44:20.715
So we started, the idea of the program came along.00:44:21.055 –> 00:44:23.955
Um, there are a lot of universities that are starting, uh,00:44:24.835 –> 00:44:26.675
programs like this, but when we started00:44:26.675 –> 00:44:29.275
to think about it at USC, we really wanted to think about00:44:29.305 –> 00:44:32.005
what matters here as a university00:44:32.265 –> 00:44:34.325
and, you know, what, what we could offer00:44:34.325 –> 00:44:36.965
that falls into the category of lifelong learning,00:44:37.465 –> 00:44:40.205
but in a very authentic way to what USC is good at00:44:40.505 –> 00:44:42.125
and what USC has to offer.00:44:42.465 –> 00:44:46.765
Um, so we spent a lot of time thinking about the core values00:44:46.945 –> 00:44:50.125
and, you know, and then also just things that USC does well.00:44:50.145 –> 00:44:51.925
So we, we, we knew we wanted00:44:51.925 –> 00:44:53.805
to do something on personal narratives00:44:53.805 –> 00:44:56.085
and storytelling, um, which was our last session.00:44:56.785 –> 00:45:01.325
And the idea that, you know, as a leader, you come,00:45:01.985 –> 00:45:04.485
you have to be, you have to be a certain type of leader00:45:04.505 –> 00:45:06.685
to be a leader that is not always your core self.00:45:06.785 –> 00:45:09.245
And that, you know, there was a person inside of there00:45:09.635 –> 00:45:12.125
that wants to do different things or other things, and may,00:45:12.125 –> 00:45:14.565
and, you know, reminding people how to make decisions from00:45:14.565 –> 00:45:16.165
that place, or thinking about what,00:45:16.165 –> 00:45:17.765
what the next act looks like from00:45:17.765 –> 00:45:18.965
that place of authenticity.00:45:19.505 –> 00:45:22.165
And so, you know, we’ve brought in people who are experts,00:45:22.165 –> 00:45:23.645
storytellers and screenwriters,00:45:23.865 –> 00:45:26.125
and, um, connected to the School of Cinematic Arts.00:45:26.325 –> 00:45:29.005
’cause that’s just something that USC has access to.00:45:29.395 –> 00:45:32.485
When we started to think about sustainability as a core, um,00:45:32.865 –> 00:45:36.245
as a, as a core principle of, of, at USC,00:45:36.245 –> 00:45:39.605
we thought about the Wrigley Center in, in, um, in,00:45:39.745 –> 00:45:41.525
on Catalina Island, which was designed,00:45:42.255 –> 00:45:45.645
oddly enough not just to be an environmental center,00:45:45.745 –> 00:45:48.525
but to be almost like they wanted it to have a Davos like,00:45:49.065 –> 00:45:52.125
um, environment with kind of open seminars00:45:52.125 –> 00:45:53.805
and open discussions where you can kind00:45:53.805 –> 00:45:55.525
of tackle the bigger problems in the world.00:45:55.665 –> 00:46:00.045
And it’s a, it’s meant to feel very, um, very intimate00:46:00.065 –> 00:46:02.485
and very, very thought, very thoughtful.00:46:02.785 –> 00:46:05.165
And so we thought, okay, well, what a perfect place00:46:05.225 –> 00:46:06.725
to put a group of leaders like this00:46:06.785 –> 00:46:09.365
who are thinking about their next steps in a place00:46:09.365 –> 00:46:12.125
where we can look at what are the opportunities, uh,00:46:12.545 –> 00:46:14.605
for the next, you know, for, for my next step.00:46:14.705 –> 00:46:17.845
And then what, what problems do I even wanna tackle in the00:46:17.845 –> 00:46:21.045
world if what I’m going after is social good, this, the,00:46:21.185 –> 00:46:24.245
the Kami, uh, you know, kind of segment of all00:46:24.245 –> 00:46:25.885
of this will be about trying to put some of00:46:25.885 –> 00:46:29.405
that into practice and really introducing people to people00:46:29.405 –> 00:46:31.125
that can help them with their goals.00:46:31.425 –> 00:46:33.325
And, you know, really thinking through00:46:33.745 –> 00:46:35.805
how do we put these ideas into00:46:35.805 –> 00:46:36.925
some kind of practice in the future.00:46:37.145 –> 00:46:39.325
And then, you know, we’re also focused very much on,00:46:39.465 –> 00:46:41.365
on health and wellness and longevity,00:46:41.365 –> 00:46:44.045
which is also a big focus here at USC.00:46:44.265 –> 00:46:46.045
So these were sort of the core themes,00:46:46.505 –> 00:46:50.885
but really what we want is a place00:46:51.115 –> 00:46:53.725
that helps us, you know, to connect people,00:46:53.725 –> 00:46:55.045
leaders of this generation.00:46:55.045 –> 00:46:57.405
There’ll be a lot of opportunity for intergenerational00:46:57.985 –> 00:46:59.565
impact with, with our students.00:46:59.745 –> 00:47:02.245
You know, kind of putting, putting opportunities together00:47:02.665 –> 00:47:05.845
to do hackathons, to put to, you know, to have ideas,00:47:05.845 –> 00:47:07.885
sharing with younger people, being able to share00:47:07.885 –> 00:47:10.085
that knowledge back while also figuring out00:47:10.275 –> 00:47:11.565
what does my next step look like?00:47:12.145 –> 00:47:13.645
And having great experiences.00:47:14.385 –> 00:47:18.005
Um, we decided to make it hybrid so00:47:18.005 –> 00:47:20.005
that more people could participate from overseas00:47:20.065 –> 00:47:22.285
and we could get people from farther afield so00:47:22.285 –> 00:47:24.005
that you could do some of this while you00:47:24.005 –> 00:47:25.325
are still in your life.00:47:25.505 –> 00:47:28.125
And then take people out of their lives to have more00:47:28.125 –> 00:47:29.965
of these like, kind of of pivotal moments.00:47:30.385 –> 00:47:35.015
Um, I feel like the best boards I’ve been on are good at00:47:35.015 –> 00:47:37.055
getting people out of their comfort zone00:47:37.075 –> 00:47:38.335
and out of their day to day,00:47:38.715 –> 00:47:41.135
and giving them opportunities to get to know each other.00:47:41.365 –> 00:47:43.975
It’s a little bit also about finding networks at this00:47:43.975 –> 00:47:45.295
point for many of us.00:47:45.595 –> 00:47:47.885
You know, when you,00:47:48.075 –> 00:47:49.925
when you think about moving on from a job,00:47:49.985 –> 00:47:52.485
or if you think about moving locations, you know, where,00:47:53.165 –> 00:47:54.845
I don’t know, it gets a little thinner at the top.00:47:54.945 –> 00:47:58.645
And I think always finding new friends, new connections,00:47:58.705 –> 00:48:02.165
new networks at this stage, I feel like is a really, is,00:48:02.185 –> 00:48:03.885
is a really important factor as well.00:48:04.065 –> 00:48:06.165
So that’s, that’s the motivation for the program.00:48:06.555 –> 00:48:11.085
It’s our inaugural, inaugural. Inaugural, thank you.00:48:11.505 –> 00:48:14.365
Uh, bad that I’m messing that one up in a politics, uh,00:48:15.555 –> 00:48:18.125
talk, um, that, you know, it’s our first one.00:48:18.135 –> 00:48:21.845
There we go. So we’re gonna, as00:48:21.845 –> 00:48:23.365
Well are, are we prospective students,00:48:24.075 –> 00:48:27.005
activists, organizers? Help me out.00:48:27.265 –> 00:48:29.715
Um, I mean, I think00:48:29.825 –> 00:48:32.355
what you are in the world is, is more up to you.00:48:32.715 –> 00:48:35.795
I think in this context, we would be, we would think of you00:48:35.855 –> 00:48:40.315
as, yeah, sort of lifelong curious learner, people00:48:40.655 –> 00:48:45.035
who want to, um, gather for a nine month period to see00:48:45.035 –> 00:48:46.155
where that journey takes you.00:48:48.405 –> 00:48:49.405
Does that make sense?00:48:50.245 –> 00:48:54.775
Uhhuh? Okay. Anyone else? Yeah. Other questions?00:48:56.185 –> 00:48:59.845
So I have a couple of questions, um, that, uh,00:49:00.205 –> 00:49:01.445
directly related to the program00:49:01.825 –> 00:49:05.025
and, uh, to compliment, obviously the backgrounds00:49:05.245 –> 00:49:06.585
of people here that, you know,00:49:06.585 –> 00:49:08.225
from the speakers are very impressive.00:49:09.315 –> 00:49:12.855
So, is the, is the program, does it integrate nicely with,00:49:12.915 –> 00:49:14.615
say, the School of Public Affairs, school00:49:14.615 –> 00:49:18.015
of Public Administration, school of Business Law?00:49:18.495 –> 00:49:23.015
I mean, how does the, the academic kind of setting kind00:49:23.015 –> 00:49:26.495
of distills itself for people that are more, for me,00:49:26.555 –> 00:49:28.095
I’m more on the international stage00:49:28.635 –> 00:49:30.735
of clients in Dubai and Abu Dhabi.00:49:30.775 –> 00:49:31.775
I live here in New York City.00:49:32.395 –> 00:49:35.575
Um, USC graduate want to come back00:49:35.635 –> 00:49:38.735
and make more of a, a contribution to the school.00:49:39.435 –> 00:49:44.015
How do you envision that as kind of solidifying the, um,00:49:44.915 –> 00:49:46.175
the academic discipline?00:49:46.375 –> 00:49:48.375
’cause any kind of transition leads00:49:48.375 –> 00:49:50.535
to new knowledge gathering, dealing00:49:50.535 –> 00:49:52.215
with different politics, different people.00:49:52.915 –> 00:49:53.975
Uh, is that kind00:49:53.975 –> 00:49:56.255
of all focused into the integration of the program?00:49:57.505 –> 00:49:58.525
It, it, it is.00:49:58.845 –> 00:50:01.085
I think that to some extent what we’re trying00:50:01.365 –> 00:50:04.885
to do is really, um, we will be working with all00:50:04.885 –> 00:50:06.365
of the schools in a variety of ways,00:50:06.385 –> 00:50:07.845
but mostly to handpick people00:50:08.035 –> 00:50:10.845
that will match the aspirations of the group00:50:10.875 –> 00:50:12.165
that, that we select.00:50:12.825 –> 00:50:15.405
Um, you know, and really that’s where like getting a sense00:50:15.405 –> 00:50:17.285
of people’s backgrounds and what they’re hoping to get out00:50:17.285 –> 00:50:19.325
of the program is gonna be really important for us.00:50:19.825 –> 00:50:22.445
Um, it, it will be USC based,00:50:22.465 –> 00:50:25.085
but we’re also bringing in leaders from around the world00:50:25.265 –> 00:50:26.525
who are running big things00:50:26.705 –> 00:50:28.805
and, um, you know, creating opportunities,00:50:28.815 –> 00:50:30.205
especially internationally.00:50:30.225 –> 00:50:34.245
We have, um, one of our advisors is really hoping00:50:34.265 –> 00:50:36.685
to create a whole segment on the global south00:50:36.745 –> 00:50:39.005
and, you know, just the extraordinary number00:50:39.005 –> 00:50:41.005
of opportunities happening there with, with00:50:41.025 –> 00:50:43.045
and, um, for leaders to get involved00:50:43.045 –> 00:50:44.165
with in a variety of ways.00:50:44.345 –> 00:50:45.885
So it’ll be, yes,00:50:45.885 –> 00:50:48.325
there are academic opportunities to pursue.00:50:48.465 –> 00:50:52.045
We will also be, um, we’ll have a roster of faculty who are00:50:53.035 –> 00:50:54.085
open to office hours.00:50:54.265 –> 00:50:56.525
My lights are about to go out.00:50:56.945 –> 00:50:58.965
I’m gonna go off camera and turn them back on.00:50:59.505 –> 00:51:02.045
I’m in, uh, yeah, I’m on auto lights, but I’ll keep talking.00:51:02.945 –> 00:51:07.925
Um, the, the important piece I think for us is really to,00:51:08.625 –> 00:51:12.165
um, ensure that we understand what people’s goals are, so00:51:12.165 –> 00:51:15.405
that we know how to map those back to the correct faculty00:51:15.705 –> 00:51:16.925
and the correct opportunities.00:51:17.265 –> 00:51:18.925
And, you know, if there are centers00:51:18.925 –> 00:51:21.405
that people wanna get involved with, we’re happy to, we’re,00:51:21.405 –> 00:51:22.405
we’re happy to connect there.00:51:22.785 –> 00:51:24.725
If there are faculty people have been hoping to meet,00:51:24.725 –> 00:51:25.725
we’re happy to connect there.00:51:25.745 –> 00:51:28.085
If there are people with that we can connect people00:51:28.085 –> 00:51:30.565
to in the world, right, then that’s what we’re gonna do too.00:51:31.165 –> 00:51:32.205
I don’t it, you know,00:51:32.485 –> 00:51:34.485
I think it’ll be a little bit choose your own adventure.00:51:34.595 –> 00:51:35.645
Some people will come in00:51:35.645 –> 00:51:37.965
and really be looking for quite a lot of academic rigor.00:51:38.125 –> 00:51:40.285
I think for other people, it’ll really be a time00:51:40.285 –> 00:51:41.365
of self-reflection.00:51:41.745 –> 00:51:44.045
For some people, it might just be really fun, you know,00:51:44.305 –> 00:51:46.765
to be with a group of people and, and doing great things.00:51:46.865 –> 00:51:48.405
Ha listening to great talks, going00:51:48.405 –> 00:51:49.605
to some football games, we hope.00:51:49.665 –> 00:51:50.965
And, you know, um,00:51:51.265 –> 00:51:54.925
and taking advantage of that side of, of USCI, we’ve talked00:51:54.925 –> 00:51:57.405
to people who are really interested in seeing00:51:57.555 –> 00:51:59.605
what the film students are producing00:51:59.745 –> 00:52:01.245
and maybe investing in some films.00:52:01.425 –> 00:52:02.525
And so, you know, there’s,00:52:02.765 –> 00:52:05.205
I think people are gonna come from a variety of backgrounds00:52:05.225 –> 00:52:07.005
and have a variety of ideas about00:52:07.105 –> 00:52:09.285
how they want this program to work for them.00:52:11.825 –> 00:52:13.165
And, uh, uh, curiosity,00:52:13.265 –> 00:52:15.085
how many people in the program overall?00:52:15.755 –> 00:52:17.885
Yeah, no, that’s a incredible question.00:52:18.185 –> 00:52:20.285
Uh, we’re gonna hold it to 25 people.00:52:20.665 –> 00:52:22.725
Um, we want it to be a pretty tight group.00:52:23.185 –> 00:52:27.685
And so we are, you know, we, we feel like any more than00:52:27.685 –> 00:52:29.725
that, it would start to get a little too big right now.00:52:30.105 –> 00:52:33.325
And especially, um, due to some of the, um, just some00:52:33.325 –> 00:52:35.845
of the experiences we wanna provide for people,00:52:35.845 –> 00:52:37.125
especially at Catalina.00:52:37.275 –> 00:52:40.005
It’s, you know, we, we, we want it to feel quite intimate.00:52:40.265 –> 00:52:42.205
So that’s, you know, we, we feel like00:52:42.205 –> 00:52:44.085
that’s a good size for now.00:52:44.535 –> 00:52:46.765
Eventually, we’ll probably run two of these a year.00:52:46.765 –> 00:52:48.325
Right now we’re only gonna run one a year.00:52:48.545 –> 00:52:51.725
Um, so yeah, then it would, we, we could accommodate 50.00:52:51.985 –> 00:52:54.085
Um, but, but right now it’s 25. Got00:52:54.085 –> 00:52:55.085
It. Thank you.00:52:55.085 –> 00:52:55.215
00:52:57.205 –> 00:52:59.425
Era. We do have a question in the chat for Bob.00:53:00.445 –> 00:53:02.905
Oh, sorry. Um, uh,00:53:04.015 –> 00:53:05.825
It’s, it’s not an easy one. It’s for Mike,00:53:06.395 –> 00:53:07.395
Right? Well, can you, can00:53:07.395 –> 00:53:09.665
you go ahead? I don’t see it, so that’s00:53:09.665 –> 00:53:10.665
Okay. I’ll ask the way.00:53:10.665 –> 00:53:11.705
Thank you, Bob.00:53:11.775 –> 00:53:13.985
Mike is wondering how do we reclaim00:53:14.045 –> 00:53:15.425
or rebuild our democracy?00:53:16.055 –> 00:53:18.465
This is gone, it seems, to the days of understanding00:53:18.605 –> 00:53:21.185
and even decorum, it feels very unsettled.00:53:21.185 –> 00:53:23.225
And I wonder what the silver bullet might be.00:53:23.525 –> 00:53:26.565
So just a light question for you right there at the end.00:53:26.565 –> 00:53:29.165
If you could solve our problems in two00:53:29.165 –> 00:53:30.485
to three sentences, that would be great.00:53:32.155 –> 00:53:34.655
Uh, first I have to warn you, for whatever reason,00:53:34.755 –> 00:53:37.815
my battery is, is about to give out.00:53:37.955 –> 00:53:40.535
So if I disappear, it’s not that I don’t like this,00:53:40.635 –> 00:53:41.695
I’m enjoying it a lot.00:53:42.355 –> 00:53:45.315
Uh, there is no silver bullet.00:53:46.195 –> 00:53:50.775
Uh, the only answer is for people to be involved00:53:51.235 –> 00:53:52.935
to care to vote.00:53:53.715 –> 00:53:54.895
Uh, and one00:53:54.895 –> 00:53:57.215
of the things we’ve done on the SC campus is00:53:57.355 –> 00:53:58.535
really promote voting.00:53:58.795 –> 00:54:01.455
And USC had one of the highest voting rates00:54:01.475 –> 00:54:02.815
of any school in the country.00:54:03.435 –> 00:54:07.145
Uh, but no silver bullet.00:54:07.605 –> 00:54:10.705
You gotta do this brick by brick, by brick, uh,00:54:11.685 –> 00:54:14.025
and you have to hold people accountable.00:54:14.365 –> 00:54:16.985
We, we need a common base of information.00:54:17.285 –> 00:54:19.305
We don’t have that anymore. ’cause we have this thing,00:54:20.145 –> 00:54:22.325
so anybody can get whatever they want.00:54:22.825 –> 00:54:27.045
In Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s line about everybody’s entitled00:54:27.065 –> 00:54:28.085
to their own opinions,00:54:28.085 –> 00:54:30.085
but not their own facts is no longer true.00:54:30.555 –> 00:54:32.525
Everybody can get whatever fact they want.00:54:33.225 –> 00:54:37.015
Uh, so it,00:54:37.075 –> 00:54:39.535
it requires active citizen involvement.00:54:39.675 –> 00:54:44.175
It requires that people have some faith in institutions,00:54:44.185 –> 00:54:46.335
which is pretty frayed right now.00:54:47.155 –> 00:54:51.295
Uh, and it requires holding00:54:52.105 –> 00:54:54.055
civil conversations where you can,00:54:54.235 –> 00:54:55.535
you can disagree with each other.00:54:56.155 –> 00:54:59.255
In fact, we’ve done this as an exercise on campus where,00:54:59.275 –> 00:55:03.295
you know, get the, get the true believing young Republicans00:55:03.355 –> 00:55:05.535
to talk to the true believing young Democrats.00:55:06.075 –> 00:55:10.135
Uh, but you know, the, there’s nothing written in the stars00:55:10.725 –> 00:55:13.135
that says American democracy is permanent.00:55:13.715 –> 00:55:17.495
Uh, and there’s a lot of literature now about00:55:18.595 –> 00:55:23.135
how societies transition to, in an authoritarian direction.00:55:23.715 –> 00:55:27.535
Uh, and, you know, Hitler won an election00:55:27.595 –> 00:55:28.775
for god’s sake in Germany.00:55:29.435 –> 00:55:34.215
Uh, so you, you have to, you, you have to be sensitive00:55:34.215 –> 00:55:35.295
to what these issues are.00:55:35.835 –> 00:55:38.575
You have to care about them, you have to be involved.00:55:39.435 –> 00:55:42.015
And this goes back to something I said earlier,00:55:42.765 –> 00:55:44.255
volunteer to be in a campaign.00:55:45.035 –> 00:55:46.895
Use the gifts that you’ve developed00:55:46.895 –> 00:55:48.255
and the talents you’ve developed00:55:48.435 –> 00:55:50.975
and the contacts you’ve developed to make a difference.00:55:52.095 –> 00:55:54.075
That’s probably not an adequate answer,00:55:54.075 –> 00:55:55.795
but that’s the best one I can give.00:56:02.235 –> 00:56:04.575
All right, thank you. And three minutes left.00:56:04.675 –> 00:56:06.855
We might have time for one more question,00:56:06.995 –> 00:56:10.615
if there was one more on either the program or, uh,00:56:10.795 –> 00:56:12.135
or for Kami or Bob.00:56:14.945 –> 00:56:19.905
I have a question. Uh, this is Anand v Sorry,00:56:19.905 –> 00:56:21.465
lemme turn my camera back on.00:56:24.085 –> 00:56:27.585
Um, for my own, um, understanding00:56:29.075 –> 00:56:32.295
if this program has a duration of nine months,00:56:34.195 –> 00:56:38.255
um, what, um, how,00:56:38.395 –> 00:56:40.415
how would you report either success00:56:40.475 –> 00:56:42.695
or failure at the end of the nine months?00:56:43.605 –> 00:56:46.935
What would you want to see from the individuals00:56:46.955 –> 00:56:48.135
who joined this program,00:56:49.235 –> 00:56:51.295
and what would each individual want00:56:51.295 –> 00:56:53.375
to achieve at the end of this program?00:56:54.315 –> 00:56:57.535
So you’ve got two sets of goals, one with USC00:56:57.535 –> 00:56:59.015
and one for each individual.00:57:00.165 –> 00:57:01.295
What would be the results00:57:01.445 –> 00:57:04.495
that everybody would target at the end of the nine months?00:57:05.895 –> 00:57:06.915
That’s a great question.00:57:07.315 –> 00:57:10.675
I, I think, um, I’ll speak for the USC piece first.00:57:11.115 –> 00:57:14.155
I mean, I think for us, success would be00:57:14.695 –> 00:57:18.835
people having had a really fulfilling period of time00:57:19.555 –> 00:57:22.435
together, um, where they felt they learned a lot,00:57:22.435 –> 00:57:23.795
they got a lot out of the program,00:57:23.975 –> 00:57:27.995
and that they were significantly on the path to00:57:28.995 –> 00:57:30.475
whatever they thought was their next00:57:30.965 –> 00:57:32.235
steps, whatever that means.00:57:32.375 –> 00:57:34.555
And it could mean, it could mean00:57:34.555 –> 00:57:35.675
many things for many people.00:57:35.935 –> 00:57:38.635
So I think that for me, it really would matter.00:57:38.695 –> 00:57:40.315
You know, it would matter that people felt00:57:40.315 –> 00:57:42.595
that all the participants felt that they were getting00:57:43.025 –> 00:57:44.395
what they wanted out of the program,00:57:44.495 –> 00:57:46.955
and that the program was had fulfilled their,00:57:47.535 –> 00:57:48.835
um, you know, their goals.00:57:49.395 –> 00:57:53.505
I think as a, as a, as a leader of this, I would also hope00:57:53.505 –> 00:57:54.545
that it had gone well.00:57:54.545 –> 00:57:56.745
Everybody had gotten where they needed to go.00:57:56.965 –> 00:57:58.825
We hadn’t, uh, you know, we,00:57:58.935 –> 00:58:01.425
we’d had some great experiences along the way.00:58:01.455 –> 00:58:04.225
We’d all enjoyed them. We’d had a, we’d had a great, um,00:58:04.285 –> 00:58:05.465
you know, great conversations.00:58:05.495 –> 00:58:07.065
We’d met some really interesting people00:58:07.645 –> 00:58:09.985
and that we had a better sense of how00:58:09.985 –> 00:58:12.105
to connect this group to the university.00:58:12.105 –> 00:58:14.785
And that we’d, we’d, we’d created this distinguished group00:58:14.785 –> 00:58:18.425
of leaders for USC, um, that we could then connect00:58:18.445 –> 00:58:19.465
to our next group00:58:19.605 –> 00:58:22.225
and, you know, to students as, as we wanted to,00:58:22.245 –> 00:58:26.145
but to, to really, um, you know, create this, this,00:58:26.415 –> 00:58:29.465
this group that, that USC could call upon too, as, you know,00:58:29.465 –> 00:58:32.065
when, when it’s time to make a phone call as, uh, you know,00:58:32.165 –> 00:58:35.625
as, as Bob is always getting, you know, to, uh, or,00:58:35.645 –> 00:58:38.145
or, you know, calling people in this could also become00:58:38.145 –> 00:58:39.185
that group of people too.00:58:39.365 –> 00:58:41.345
And, and that we know that we would have them as,00:58:41.405 –> 00:58:43.465
as these thinkers and leaders for USC.00:58:43.465 –> 00:58:46.305
So I think longer term, that’s my hope for the program.00:58:48.875 –> 00:58:51.975
So given that the people on this call come from different00:58:51.975 –> 00:58:55.655
backgrounds, uh, political engineering,00:58:55.785 –> 00:58:58.575
consulting technology, the goals00:58:58.605 –> 00:59:01.495
that individuals have would probably be very different.00:59:01.995 –> 00:59:03.575
Um, yeah. At the individual level.00:59:04.605 –> 00:59:08.145
So bringing all of these different people into one program,00:59:09.215 –> 00:59:12.305
what would be the common, um, thread00:59:12.615 –> 00:59:14.545
that would tie these people together?00:59:14.545 –> 00:59:16.265
Because if you’re coming from politics,00:59:16.285 –> 00:59:17.625
you have one set of interests.00:59:18.045 –> 00:59:19.705
If you’re coming from the technology world,00:59:19.725 –> 00:59:21.765
you have a completely different set of interests.00:59:22.035 –> 00:59:24.325
Yeah. So how, how would this work?00:59:24.525 –> 00:59:26.805
I mean, how would this get to the end of nine months?00:59:27.315 –> 00:59:30.565
Well, we’re, we’re trying to think about it as, you know,00:59:30.615 –> 00:59:34.225
first of all, we’re, that’s part of the motivation00:59:34.245 –> 00:59:35.665
for keeping it small is being able00:59:35.665 –> 00:59:37.065
to address just that concern.00:59:37.405 –> 00:59:38.705
But we’re also planning00:59:38.705 –> 00:59:41.345
to break it up into even smaller groups than that.00:59:41.565 –> 00:59:42.585
So we imagine00:59:42.615 –> 00:59:45.945
that the common thread initially is everybody wants00:59:45.965 –> 00:59:49.425
to transition to something that has some impact on the world00:59:49.485 –> 00:59:51.785
or some, some aspect of social good.00:59:51.885 –> 00:59:53.945
And we think that that makes our, uh,00:59:53.945 –> 00:59:55.465
program a little bit different than some00:59:55.465 –> 00:59:56.505
of the other programs as well.00:59:56.505 –> 00:59:59.945
It isn’t sort of, you know, somebody doesn’t wanna go off00:59:59.945 –> 01:00:02.265
and it’s their dream to create a, you know, a shoe company01:00:02.365 –> 01:00:04.425
or something, you know, which I, it, it really should,01:00:04.485 –> 01:00:06.985
you know, we, we think we are, well, well, I don’t know,01:00:06.985 –> 01:00:09.345
maybe a shoe company does do social good anyway.01:00:10.285 –> 01:00:12.745
The idea is much more that we are creating, um,01:00:13.195 –> 01:00:15.425
we’re creating opportunities for ourselves in the future01:00:15.425 –> 01:00:16.625
that will have impact.01:00:17.185 –> 01:00:20.265
I think that there will be natural affinities01:00:20.535 –> 01:00:22.305
between some people’s projects.01:00:22.925 –> 01:00:26.025
We intend to group those people we think probably in01:00:26.025 –> 01:00:27.265
threes, but it could be fours.01:00:27.265 –> 01:00:28.585
It could be fives, depending on01:00:28.585 –> 01:00:31.625
what those natural affinities are to create smaller groups01:00:31.715 –> 01:00:34.545
where people can be supporting each other almost in like a01:00:34.545 –> 01:00:36.345
board of directors type of way.01:00:36.805 –> 01:00:38.985
And we can, each group would have an advisor01:00:39.165 –> 01:00:41.585
that’s taking them through each of those, um,01:00:41.895 –> 01:00:42.945
each of those segments.01:00:43.125 –> 01:00:45.305
Mm-hmm. We also tend to switch those up01:00:45.305 –> 01:00:48.065
because we don’t expect that people who come in with an idea01:00:48.615 –> 01:00:50.345
will end up with the exact same idea.01:00:50.405 –> 01:00:52.785
So there’ll be some fluidity about that as well, in terms01:00:52.785 –> 01:00:55.705
of getting people, um, you know, kind of paired up01:00:55.705 –> 01:00:58.145
with the right advisors, with the right speakers,01:00:58.175 –> 01:01:00.705
with the right people that can actually help them to achieve01:01:00.705 –> 01:01:01.865
what they’re hoping to achieve.01:01:02.365 –> 01:01:04.745
But really, um, I think these subgroups01:01:05.495 –> 01:01:08.065
naturally will be closer to each other, um,01:01:08.125 –> 01:01:09.145
in what they wanna achieve.01:01:09.485 –> 01:01:10.665
And that won’t mean that they’ve01:01:10.665 –> 01:01:11.865
come from the same backgrounds.01:01:12.145 –> 01:01:14.865
I, I think people can come from very different backgrounds01:01:14.885 –> 01:01:16.425
and different leadership experiences,01:01:16.965 –> 01:01:19.385
and maybe want to go in a direction01:01:19.385 –> 01:01:21.625
that is substantially similar regardless01:01:21.685 –> 01:01:22.705
of where they’ve come from.01:01:23.085 –> 01:01:25.265
So that’s part of how we’ll we’ll look to address that.01:01:25.365 –> 01:01:28.305
And I also think, um, you know, we have, we have a number01:01:28.305 –> 01:01:32.705
of people that are affiliated with the program as advisors01:01:32.845 –> 01:01:35.345
who are going to bring a breadth of experience01:01:35.495 –> 01:01:39.465
that will probably encompass most of what, you know, much01:01:39.465 –> 01:01:41.785
of what’s a, what’s available in terms01:01:41.785 –> 01:01:43.465
of leadership in the world as well.01:01:44.905 –> 01:01:46.395
Okay. I’d like to learn more.01:01:47.075 –> 01:01:50.155
I think this is a good starter session for me personally,01:01:50.375 –> 01:01:51.795
not talking to about everybody else.01:01:52.775 –> 01:01:54.555
Um, I’d like to stay in touch01:01:54.775 –> 01:01:58.595
and, uh, learn more about, um, how to, how to achieve01:01:58.595 –> 01:02:01.275
that level of fit that you’re, uh, expressing.01:02:01.725 –> 01:02:05.275
Great. Yeah, I’m, I’m happy to, happy to meet again, uh,01:02:05.475 –> 01:02:09.315
separately with any, with anybody who wants to, um, Rashina.01:02:09.395 –> 01:02:13.755
I see we have, we’re a tad over, so if anybody needs to go,01:02:14.415 –> 01:02:17.915
let me just, let me just say thank you also to, uh, Bob01:02:18.135 –> 01:02:20.925
and Kami, um, just while we still have everybody,01:02:20.925 –> 01:02:22.165
thank you so much for your time.01:02:22.795 –> 01:02:24.285
Very grateful. Um,01:02:24.425 –> 01:02:26.685
and then I’m happy to stay on Rashina if you,01:02:26.705 –> 01:02:29.085
if you’d like me to answer your question as well.01:02:31.295 –> 01:02:33.825
Okay. Thanks everybody. I was gonna just gonna01:02:33.825 –> 01:02:34.985
say I really enjoyed this.01:02:35.435 –> 01:02:38.665
Thank you all very, very much for putting up with us.01:02:39.995 –> 01:02:41.385
Thank you, Bob. Thank you.01:02:42.095 –> 01:02:43.265
Yeah, thanks a lot folks,01:02:43.285 –> 01:02:45.625
and thank you, Tara, for organizing this. Very grateful.01:02:46.405 –> 01:02:47.465
Oh, no, thank you, Kenny. Thanks01:02:47.465 –> 01:02:48.585
so much for participating.01:02:48.585 –> 01:02:50.065
We are very grateful to both of you.01:02:51.875 –> 01:02:54.205
Okay, bye. Thank01:02:54.295 –> 01:02:55.295
You.01:02:56.475 –> 01:02:59.655
All right. And, um, Rashina, um, we could take01:03:00.375 –> 01:03:02.335
probably one more question and then I think we probably all01:03:02.335 –> 01:03:04.135
have to go, but happy to answer your question.01:03:04.995 –> 01:03:06.255
Um, it was kind of just a,01:03:06.415 –> 01:03:08.215
a mostly a follow up to the previous one.01:03:08.915 –> 01:03:11.295
Um, if you’re, uh, if you’re hoping01:03:11.315 –> 01:03:13.455
to have about 24 people in the cohort,01:03:13.635 –> 01:03:16.455
do you think there might be enough, uh,01:03:17.215 –> 01:03:20.415
I guess critical mass with people of different interests,01:03:21.385 –> 01:03:24.165
um, could, you know, to make sense with that?01:03:24.305 –> 01:03:26.985
Um, for me, the biggest value of,01:03:27.045 –> 01:03:30.065
of a program like this is the alumni is the connections.01:03:30.335 –> 01:03:33.505
Yeah. So, um, but also tied to interests.01:03:33.965 –> 01:03:38.805
And then the second part is if, um, if,01:03:38.825 –> 01:03:41.325
if you’re over oversubscribed, then what are you looking01:03:41.545 –> 01:03:45.565
for in, uh, in, in people that you would, you would want01:03:45.565 –> 01:03:47.845
to see join the program at what01:03:47.865 –> 01:03:50.285
and at what, at what stage did someone say, Hey,01:03:50.285 –> 01:03:52.805
maybe this is not for me yet at this time,01:03:52.825 –> 01:03:55.405
and maybe, you know, a couple years down the line versus,01:03:56.385 –> 01:03:58.245
um, this is the right time for me.01:03:59.175 –> 01:04:02.705
Yeah. Um, to answer the first question, we’re trying01:04:02.725 –> 01:04:05.625
to keep the, the, the similarities01:04:05.645 –> 01:04:07.985
or the, the cohorts if you will, sort of broad.01:04:08.245 –> 01:04:09.825
And, you know, we, we, we started01:04:09.825 –> 01:04:12.025
with the organizing principle of the, um,01:04:12.025 –> 01:04:14.585
sustainable development goals at the United Nations,01:04:14.685 –> 01:04:16.985
and then rolled those into like three or four things.01:04:17.445 –> 01:04:20.265
So it’s like, are you interested in, you know,01:04:20.735 –> 01:04:22.025
like the environments?01:04:22.205 –> 01:04:25.465
Are you interested in, you know, um, uh, health01:04:25.465 –> 01:04:26.465
and wellness, you know, and,01:04:26.465 –> 01:04:28.265
and tried to kind of bucket those a bit more.01:04:28.525 –> 01:04:31.905
So within those, of course, there could be 500 things that,01:04:31.905 –> 01:04:33.105
that you could focus on01:04:33.125 –> 01:04:35.305
or more, you know, um, any number of things.01:04:35.645 –> 01:04:38.745
So we do think actually that 25 people is probably enough01:04:38.745 –> 01:04:41.545
to find some critical mass related to key areas01:04:41.605 –> 01:04:43.585
of interest at that, at that, uh, level.01:04:44.205 –> 01:04:46.265
But again, there’ll be a lot of fluidity01:04:46.335 –> 01:04:47.665
between, between the groups.01:04:47.845 –> 01:04:52.355
And in terms of just the network itself, I think two things.01:04:52.675 –> 01:04:54.875
I, first of all, I do think that these,01:04:54.885 –> 01:04:58.715
these weeks away will be pivotal for getting people, um,01:04:58.895 –> 01:05:02.675
to meet and know people who they wouldn’t ordinarily meet01:05:02.675 –> 01:05:04.355
and know we are purposely not doing01:05:04.355 –> 01:05:05.755
that in places where people live.01:05:06.255 –> 01:05:09.355
Um, you know, for at least a couple of these to make sure01:05:09.355 –> 01:05:12.075
that people, you know, have the, have that experience01:05:12.075 –> 01:05:13.075
of just being with each other.01:05:13.535 –> 01:05:16.315
And we’ll, we will make sure people get01:05:16.315 –> 01:05:17.610
to meet different groups,01:05:17.635 –> 01:05:19.765
even if they are mostly focused on,01:05:19.865 –> 01:05:21.125
uh, one area of interest.01:05:21.265 –> 01:05:24.965
So I, I think that part solves itself by us being, um,01:05:25.515 –> 01:05:27.685
organized and putting a good program together.01:05:28.405 –> 01:05:32.365
I think, um, as far as candidacy goes, we, we are looking01:05:32.425 –> 01:05:34.645
for people that feel ready to commit to the program.01:05:35.265 –> 01:05:39.045
Um, and, and meaning can take the time out of their lives,01:05:39.265 –> 01:05:40.685
not just to do the weeks away,01:05:40.745 –> 01:05:43.325
but also to dedicate, you know, probably five01:05:43.325 –> 01:05:45.645
to 10 hours a week really thinking about this both01:05:46.295 –> 01:05:47.965
we’ll have at least four hours a week01:05:47.965 –> 01:05:50.325
of online programming, um, if not more.01:05:50.385 –> 01:05:52.965
And then we’ll be making one-on-one time available in office01:05:52.965 –> 01:05:55.325
hours available, as I mentioned earlier, with faculty.01:05:55.985 –> 01:05:57.005
Um, there’ll be lots01:05:57.005 –> 01:05:59.325
and lots of online resources for people to consume01:05:59.385 –> 01:06:01.445
around all of this and lots of connections.01:06:01.585 –> 01:06:04.245
Um, you know, one-on-one with each other and with us.01:06:04.745 –> 01:06:08.285
So it’s, can you find the time is is a big question01:06:08.345 –> 01:06:10.165
for us when we, when we talk to candidates,01:06:10.265 –> 01:06:12.005
is this really something you’re gonna commit to?01:06:12.285 –> 01:06:15.005
Because it’s very easy to commit when you’re in person.01:06:15.525 –> 01:06:17.605
A lot harder, I think, when you’re in your day-to-day life.01:06:17.665 –> 01:06:19.045
So that, that’s, that’s one thing.01:06:19.725 –> 01:06:23.445
I also think it’s, it’s, you know, where are you in01:06:23.445 –> 01:06:25.965
that transitional journey For some people, you know,01:06:26.575 –> 01:06:28.965
maybe it’s worth doing this now, even if you’re not planning01:06:28.985 –> 01:06:33.005
to, um, you know, think about what your next steps are, um,01:06:33.545 –> 01:06:35.045
for a while, but probably,01:06:36.035 –> 01:06:38.045
it’s probably better if you’re closer to it01:06:38.185 –> 01:06:40.445
and a little, you know, either facing those questions01:06:40.465 –> 01:06:42.925
or really exploring those questions for yourself now.01:06:43.505 –> 01:06:46.165
Um, you know, or ready to explore them for yourself now,01:06:46.165 –> 01:06:49.605
because I think that there’s an urgency about it, um, that,01:06:49.845 –> 01:06:51.245
that creates that.01:06:51.245 –> 01:06:52.645
If you don’t have that, I’m not sure,01:06:53.005 –> 01:06:56.125
I think then I think the first problem is more likely if the01:06:56.155 –> 01:06:58.965
urgency doesn’t exist, um, might be the best way to say01:06:58.965 –> 01:07:01.295
that, if that makes sense.01:07:02.555 –> 01:07:04.005
Thank you. Yeah.01:07:04.025 –> 01:07:06.405
And, and obvi, you know, obviously it’s a dialogue.01:07:06.405 –> 01:07:08.765
Like if we, if we think you’re a great candidate01:07:08.765 –> 01:07:10.845
and you think you’re a great candidate and we all, you know,01:07:10.845 –> 01:07:13.965
and then you say, well, actually I’ll be a great candidate a01:07:13.965 –> 01:07:16.845
year from now, then we would hold a place, you know, we,01:07:16.865 –> 01:07:18.645
we could be pretty fluid with all of that.01:07:18.805 –> 01:07:20.925
I think right now we’re just really focused on getting the01:07:20.925 –> 01:07:22.685
right 25 people for the first cohort.01:07:23.345 –> 01:07:26.605
Um, and that’s going to take probably a spirit of adventure,01:07:27.265 –> 01:07:29.965
um, and, and a little bit more willingness01:07:29.985 –> 01:07:33.925
to be a co-creator of this program with us, um, than maybe,01:07:34.225 –> 01:07:36.885
you know, a program that’s been around for 10 or 15 years.01:07:36.885 –> 01:07:39.245
Like, we’re really looking, uh, for people that are willing01:07:39.265 –> 01:07:40.725
to really help us with this as well.01:07:45.375 –> 01:07:46.955
All right. And any other thoughts?01:07:46.955 –> 01:07:49.155
Otherwise we we’re happy to follow up. One-on-one.01:07:49.315 –> 01:07:52.235
I, I, you know, um, I look forward01:07:52.255 –> 01:07:54.795
to continuing the conversation with anyone who’d like to do01:07:54.795 –> 01:07:54.915
that.
Crafting Your Narrative: A Storytelling Session with Gabe Sachs
Date: February 29, 2024
-
00:00:08.105 –> 00:00:10.845
Um, all right, I think we can get started.00:00:11.945 –> 00:00:15.565
Um, so welcome everybody. Uh, great to see everybody.00:00:15.865 –> 00:00:18.825
Um, I just wanted to say thank you,00:00:18.825 –> 00:00:20.185
first of all for joining us.00:00:20.325 –> 00:00:21.505
Um, I’m Tara Hein-Phillips.00:00:21.645 –> 00:00:24.105
I’m the Executive Director, uh, for continuing education00:00:24.105 –> 00:00:25.105
for USC online.00:00:25.455 –> 00:00:28.385
Some of you have probably gotten my invitations to,00:00:28.605 –> 00:00:29.905
uh, to apply to the program.00:00:30.085 –> 00:00:32.705
So I’m, I’m really, uh, glad to see everybody here.00:00:33.405 –> 00:00:35.865
Um, we’re super excited to be launching this program.00:00:36.335 –> 00:00:39.825
It’s really a program that matters quite a lot to all of us.00:00:40.045 –> 00:00:42.545
Um, all of us on this meeting who work on this program,00:00:42.605 –> 00:00:46.025
who I’m gonna ask to say hello in a moment, have, um,00:00:46.295 –> 00:00:49.025
passion projects of our own, things that we work on,00:00:49.325 –> 00:00:52.305
on the side, or, you know, that we plan to work on later.00:00:52.405 –> 00:00:53.945
So we’re, we’re really in the same boat.00:00:54.195 –> 00:00:57.065
We’re creating a program that we would like to be a part of.00:00:57.245 –> 00:00:59.865
So we’re, we’re really excited, uh, to have all of you.00:01:00.665 –> 00:01:03.585
A big piece of the Distinguished Leaders Program is going00:01:03.585 –> 00:01:04.705
to be to build community00:01:04.885 –> 00:01:08.305
and build strong connections between this cohort of leaders00:01:08.335 –> 00:01:10.665
that will, will have join us in this program.00:01:11.525 –> 00:01:12.785
And that’s why we wanted00:01:12.785 –> 00:01:14.705
to start bringing everybody together so00:01:14.705 –> 00:01:16.105
that everybody can kind of get a look at00:01:16.125 –> 00:01:17.705
who else might be applying to this program,00:01:17.845 –> 00:01:21.145
and also start to meet some of the people that are going00:01:21.145 –> 00:01:23.865
to run it and some of our amazing advisors.00:01:24.285 –> 00:01:27.785
Um, so in the spirit of that, I think everybody’s camera00:01:28.725 –> 00:01:30.385
and for the most part is off.00:01:30.485 –> 00:01:33.585
But can I ask if everybody could just quickly turn it on00:01:34.045 –> 00:01:36.505
and maybe like go to gallery view so people can take a look?00:01:36.505 –> 00:01:39.705
Hey, there we go. Hi everybody. Hello. Yeah.00:01:39.895 –> 00:01:42.905
Nice for everybody to see each other a little bit, so great,00:01:42.955 –> 00:01:44.105
great that everybody’s here.00:01:45.005 –> 00:01:47.905
Um, but now I feel super intimidated, so I’m gonna go back00:01:47.905 –> 00:01:49.185
to Speaker View, so I don’t realize00:01:49.185 –> 00:01:50.425
how many people I’m talking to.00:01:51.445 –> 00:01:56.185
Um, I’m also gonna ask if, um, Allie Morris, uh,00:01:56.185 –> 00:01:57.745
who’s our senior instructional lead,00:01:57.745 –> 00:02:00.225
putting the program together, can give us a wave.00:02:01.125 –> 00:02:04.865
Um, and also Sarah, uh, Sarah Sturm,00:02:05.205 –> 00:02:08.345
who is in her fourth day as our program director.00:02:08.365 –> 00:02:09.585
She just joined us this week.00:02:09.805 –> 00:02:11.385
So Sarah, maybe you could give00:02:11.385 –> 00:02:12.585
everybody a little wave as well.00:02:13.245 –> 00:02:15.225
Um, and please feel free to reach out.00:02:15.225 –> 00:02:17.425
We’ll send out a recording for all of, uh,00:02:17.425 –> 00:02:18.705
for this, this event.00:02:18.885 –> 00:02:21.425
And, um, you know, please feel free to reach out to myself,00:02:21.445 –> 00:02:24.585
to Ally to Sarah anytime, uh, with questions.00:02:25.205 –> 00:02:29.185
So, uh, yeah, it’d be great to have your questions00:02:29.185 –> 00:02:31.745
and any, you know, now that we’re reopening the application00:02:32.265 –> 00:02:33.825
tomorrow, um, you know,00:02:33.965 –> 00:02:35.825
as if there’s any questions about the application,00:02:35.825 –> 00:02:36.865
the program, the cohort,00:02:37.205 –> 00:02:39.025
please feel free to reach out anytime.00:02:40.585 –> 00:02:44.905
Um, so getting past the boring part of me,00:02:45.245 –> 00:02:48.745
we we’re actually, we’ve asked Gabe Sachs to join us today.00:02:49.355 –> 00:02:51.865
Hello. And Gabe is, um, going to be one00:02:51.865 –> 00:02:52.865
of our advisors on the program.00:02:52.895 –> 00:02:55.465
He’s overseeing the first block around storytelling00:02:56.165 –> 00:02:57.865
and developing your personal narrative,00:02:57.865 –> 00:02:59.025
which will be the first thing that we00:02:59.090 –> 00:03:00.205
tackle within the program.00:03:01.065 –> 00:03:03.805
And he is an expert in the art of storytelling00:03:03.905 –> 00:03:06.645
and has an amazing career as a film and television writer.00:03:07.265 –> 00:03:10.445
Um, Gabe went to the USC School of Cinematic Arts,00:03:10.625 –> 00:03:12.845
and he’s worked on loads of shows, including Freaks00:03:12.845 –> 00:03:15.205
and Geeks, and he just shoot me in the night shift00:03:15.465 –> 00:03:18.325
and as well as films like Diary of a Wimpy Kid00:03:18.385 –> 00:03:21.045
and Diary of a Wimpy Kid, Roderick Rules.00:03:21.505 –> 00:03:24.445
Um, but what we, you may, you may not know about Gabe,00:03:24.445 –> 00:03:25.845
even if you knew about him before, is00:03:25.845 –> 00:03:27.725
that he’s also an accomplished photographer,00:03:27.725 –> 00:03:30.685
and he hosts a podcast, uh, called I Dream of Cameras.00:03:31.105 –> 00:03:33.485
So if anybody is a fan of cameras00:03:33.745 –> 00:03:37.565
and photography, uh, please also look out for that.00:03:37.985 –> 00:03:40.645
And he makes that podcast with his friend Jeff Greenstein,00:03:40.695 –> 00:03:42.245
who’s also here with us today.00:03:42.265 –> 00:03:43.405
Yes. Um,00:03:43.705 –> 00:03:45.765
and they just said that they’ve been doing this00:03:45.765 –> 00:03:46.805
for, I’m sorry, how many years?00:03:46.995 –> 00:03:47.995
Four years,00:03:49.165 –> 00:03:51.695
Technically, Jeff, is it three and a half? It’s00:03:51.695 –> 00:03:52.975
Three and a half years. I’m three00:03:52.975 –> 00:03:53.975
And a half years. I’m so sorry. Every00:03:53.975 –> 00:03:55.335
other week for three and a half years.00:03:55.635 –> 00:03:58.655
So there’s lots and lots of content, um, to check out.00:03:58.835 –> 00:04:01.655
And Jeff was also the showrunner for Will00:04:01.655 –> 00:04:05.455
and Grace Dream on Partners, getting Personal, um, both,00:04:05.515 –> 00:04:07.415
and those, those are shows he created.00:04:08.005 –> 00:04:10.135
He’s also helped to launch the Series Parenthood.00:04:10.135 –> 00:04:12.655
He’s written for a lot of shows and including Friends00:04:12.755 –> 00:04:15.255
and Desperate Housewives and Will and Grace and many others.00:04:15.595 –> 00:04:17.335
So these two are incredible.00:04:17.335 –> 00:04:19.095
They’re incredible to listen to together,00:04:19.235 –> 00:04:23.775
and we’re gonna let them talk to us on the, about the art00:04:23.775 –> 00:04:27.015
of storytelling and their own experience as storytellers.00:04:27.275 –> 00:04:30.055
Um, can I ask as you go along, um,00:04:30.355 –> 00:04:32.335
if you could add your questions to the q00:04:32.335 –> 00:04:33.935
and a, we’ll let them talk for a while,00:04:33.935 –> 00:04:36.615
and then we’ll take your questions for, um,00:04:36.925 –> 00:04:38.015
Jeff and for Gabe.00:04:38.115 –> 00:04:40.175
And then at the end, we can also answer questions00:04:40.175 –> 00:04:41.255
about the program itself.00:04:42.035 –> 00:04:44.375
So, welcome again, and we, I, I’m looking forward00:04:44.375 –> 00:04:45.775
to this conversation as much.00:04:45.895 –> 00:04:46.935
I hope as as you are.00:04:48.405 –> 00:04:51.735
Well, we hope so too. But, uh, it’s great to see everyone.00:04:52.385 –> 00:04:53.495
Thank you, Tara. I look forward00:04:53.495 –> 00:04:56.575
to kicking off the program in September at uscs LA Campus.00:04:57.515 –> 00:04:59.135
Um, a little about me.00:04:59.135 –> 00:05:00.375
I’ve been a writer for a long time,00:05:00.755 –> 00:05:03.815
and I definitely realize how hard it is to sit in front00:05:03.815 –> 00:05:05.255
of a blank page or a screen00:05:05.275 –> 00:05:07.415
and try to figure out some story.00:05:07.755 –> 00:05:11.095
And I’ve had a ton of start and stops00:05:11.155 –> 00:05:13.735
and finally decided to take something from my own life00:05:13.795 –> 00:05:14.895
and expand upon it.00:05:15.715 –> 00:05:18.615
So we did this also in Freaks and Geeks.00:05:18.615 –> 00:05:21.775
We had this really extensive questionnaire that, uh,00:05:21.845 –> 00:05:23.735
Paul Fiig and Judd Apatow gave us,00:05:23.835 –> 00:05:25.815
and it went through details of our lives00:05:26.035 –> 00:05:27.975
and high school experiences and things like that.00:05:28.515 –> 00:05:30.575
And these are all true stories.00:05:31.075 –> 00:05:35.455
And all of the series grew out of those, you know, answers.00:05:36.075 –> 00:05:38.575
And that’s where the stories grew from.00:05:38.635 –> 00:05:40.215
And they were all from our own lives.00:05:40.395 –> 00:05:43.095
So, uh, you all have great stories in you.00:05:43.755 –> 00:05:45.495
Um, it’s just about mining them and,00:05:45.555 –> 00:05:47.015
and getting them out into the world.00:05:47.155 –> 00:05:49.755
So let me tell you, throughout the first section00:05:49.775 –> 00:05:52.395
of the program, we’ll focus on developing a personal00:05:52.395 –> 00:05:54.875
narrative that allows you to tell your unique story00:05:55.015 –> 00:05:57.035
as it relates to this new phase of your life.00:05:57.225 –> 00:05:59.325
So, you know, we’ll tackle things like00:05:59.325 –> 00:06:01.885
what makes the story compelling, how to connect00:06:01.885 –> 00:06:04.685
with an audience, how to create tone and voice.00:06:05.295 –> 00:06:07.605
We’ll also do some fun brainstorming exercises00:06:07.605 –> 00:06:10.605
to help you generate ideas so you can continually add layers00:06:10.665 –> 00:06:12.205
to your writing as you get deeper00:06:12.205 –> 00:06:13.245
and deeper into the process.00:06:14.305 –> 00:06:17.485
Um, and I’m sure some of you, when you think of a writer00:06:17.625 –> 00:06:20.205
or writing, you think it is, is a very sort00:06:20.205 –> 00:06:22.845
of solitary process, and it definitely can be.00:06:23.585 –> 00:06:26.325
But thankfully, I’ve had a writing partner for a long time,00:06:27.025 –> 00:06:29.525
and nothing’s better than having someone you can,00:06:30.305 –> 00:06:32.405
or community you can bounce ideas off of00:06:32.425 –> 00:06:33.965
and get immediate feedback.00:06:34.665 –> 00:06:37.405
And, uh, it just helps, especially when you’re trying00:06:37.405 –> 00:06:40.165
to tell a story in a uni in a unique way.00:06:40.745 –> 00:06:42.445
Um, as Tara said, I’m very excited00:06:42.445 –> 00:06:45.285
because Jeff Greenstein is here, who I know very well.00:06:45.385 –> 00:06:47.605
He is a writer, producer, director, as you have heard00:06:48.145 –> 00:06:51.205
on something called Friends, apparently, uh, will00:06:51.205 –> 00:06:54.005
and Grace, desperate Housewives and many others.00:06:54.785 –> 00:06:56.205
Uh, Jeff, are you there?00:06:57.225 –> 00:06:58.365
Yes. Hello. Thank you00:06:58.425 –> 00:07:00.845
for having me there. Oh my goodness. Course.00:07:00.845 –> 00:07:01.965
I’m so excited. Um,00:07:01.965 –> 00:07:04.165
Thank you for that reverent recitation of my credits.00:07:04.405 –> 00:07:05.605
I really appreciate that. It’s00:07:05.605 –> 00:07:06.605
Always good. Always good.00:07:06.605 –> 00:07:10.045
Um, so let’s talk a little bit about process.00:07:10.345 –> 00:07:13.725
So, you know, think back in the beginning, um, yes.00:07:13.995 –> 00:07:17.485
When I was thinking of a story I would always think about,00:07:18.625 –> 00:07:20.885
I’d always think about telling a story as it layers.00:07:21.185 –> 00:07:23.005
So I’d start really simple00:07:23.185 –> 00:07:24.725
and then sort of add more and more.00:07:24.825 –> 00:07:26.365
And then, so, oh, I didn’t think of this.00:07:26.505 –> 00:07:29.725
And add another detail. And until it feels right.00:07:29.985 –> 00:07:33.045
So let, let’s say, when you’re figuring something out,00:07:33.155 –> 00:07:35.645
what do you use, what do you see as the essential part00:07:35.645 –> 00:07:36.965
of developing a good story?00:07:36.965 –> 00:07:38.405
Like right, right from the start?00:07:40.305 –> 00:07:42.145
I have to start. I mean, it starts00:07:42.145 –> 00:07:43.465
with something I can’t get outta my mind.00:07:43.685 –> 00:07:47.065
You know, a friend of mine who was a writer, I was, she00:07:47.065 –> 00:07:50.145
and I were having lunch at Arch Deli in the San Fernando00:07:50.145 –> 00:07:53.225
Valley, and I was telling her about this story idea I had,00:07:53.515 –> 00:07:56.745
which was about, uh, it was about a couple00:07:56.745 –> 00:07:58.225
of marriages that are in trouble.00:07:58.925 –> 00:07:59.945
And, um,00:08:00.605 –> 00:08:04.625
and some couples who are wrestling with the issue of whether00:08:05.005 –> 00:08:08.705
as a marriage ages, is it inevitable that entropy takes over00:08:09.165 –> 00:08:10.905
and a marriage eventually falls apart?00:08:10.965 –> 00:08:11.905
And I was like, I don’t know.00:08:11.945 –> 00:08:13.025
I don’t really wanna write this.00:08:13.205 –> 00:08:16.025
I’m already writing a lot of stories on Desperate Housewives00:08:16.025 –> 00:08:17.305
about marriage and commitment.00:08:17.605 –> 00:08:20.505
And she said that a teacher of hers had said, we write00:08:20.605 –> 00:08:21.745
to solve a problem.00:08:23.235 –> 00:08:27.215
And at the time, I was in the 24th year of what turned out00:08:27.215 –> 00:08:28.775
to be a 25 year marriage.00:08:29.075 –> 00:08:30.535
And so it is unsurprising00:08:30.535 –> 00:08:32.775
that I was wrestling with these themes.00:08:33.075 –> 00:08:36.415
So I did end up writing a pilot sort of based on that theme.00:08:37.115 –> 00:08:39.295
Is marriage ultimately sustainable?00:08:39.635 –> 00:08:42.375
So I start with a theme that I can wrap my arms around,00:08:43.445 –> 00:08:47.545
and then I start to think about populating the show00:08:47.935 –> 00:08:49.185
with different characters00:08:49.185 –> 00:08:50.425
and different relationships00:08:50.895 –> 00:08:54.105
that represent different vantage points on that theme00:08:54.445 –> 00:08:57.285
as I build out the ensemble and as I build out stories.00:08:57.625 –> 00:09:01.405
But always the root of the tree is, what is this thing about00:09:01.915 –> 00:09:03.005
with a capital A?00:09:03.505 –> 00:09:05.845
And everything sort of flows from that.00:09:06.185 –> 00:09:09.045
You know, you can learn what’s vestigial by00:09:09.045 –> 00:09:11.605
what doesn’t kind of suit the trunk of the tree,00:09:11.675 –> 00:09:13.925
what the tree, you know, what the theme is Yeah.00:09:13.995 –> 00:09:16.245
Will tell you what the series wants to be.00:09:16.625 –> 00:09:17.725
So it’s kind of, uh, you know,00:09:17.725 –> 00:09:19.125
as you said, it’s a built in layers.00:09:19.905 –> 00:09:21.325
Do you ever go back? I mean,00:09:21.555 –> 00:09:23.765
also sometimes trying to think of new things.00:09:23.845 –> 00:09:25.165
I always go through family stuff00:09:25.265 –> 00:09:27.245
or go through like historic stuff.00:09:27.245 –> 00:09:31.715
Yeah. Or you know, maybe start at, um, I, I remember just,00:09:31.995 –> 00:09:34.875
I grew up in New York and just what that was like,00:09:34.935 –> 00:09:37.955
and I’ll just sort of take one little piece of that00:09:38.175 –> 00:09:41.875
and realize that you can expand upon it in a00:09:41.875 –> 00:09:42.955
way that’s crazy.00:09:43.235 –> 00:09:44.275
I mean, if you just focus on00:09:44.275 –> 00:09:46.755
that little moment, you know, as a memory.00:09:48.005 –> 00:09:50.215
Yeah. You know, I watched a movie called Mikey00:09:50.215 –> 00:09:53.095
and Nikki recently, which is a film I really love written00:09:53.115 –> 00:09:54.575
and directed by Elaine May.00:09:54.955 –> 00:09:58.175
And, uh, it’s about two mobsters, which is,00:09:58.175 –> 00:09:59.495
you’d think something that Elaine Maye00:09:59.495 –> 00:10:00.575
wouldn’t care all that much about.00:10:00.905 –> 00:10:03.575
Right. And a lot of people theorized over the years, like,00:10:03.575 –> 00:10:06.015
why did Elaine Maye, who, you know, wrote the Bird cage?00:10:06.035 –> 00:10:08.175
She wrote The Heartbreak Kids, she wrote a New Leaf.00:10:08.175 –> 00:10:10.775
These are always, these are all bubbly romantic00:10:11.165 –> 00:10:12.375
stories in one way or another.00:10:12.405 –> 00:10:15.215
They may be sour or off kilter,00:10:15.215 –> 00:10:17.975
but why did she write this story about two mobsters?00:10:17.975 –> 00:10:19.015
Right. Why did she do that?00:10:19.475 –> 00:10:22.695
And so Phil Rosenthal had her on his podcast,00:10:22.955 –> 00:10:24.335
she is very seldom interview.00:10:24.715 –> 00:10:26.335
And he asked her point blank like,00:10:26.555 –> 00:10:28.495
why did you write Mikey and Nikki?00:10:28.535 –> 00:10:30.895
And he said, she said, it was based on two brothers I00:10:30.895 –> 00:10:31.975
knew growing up in Chicago.00:10:32.565 –> 00:10:35.575
Yeah. Like, it was based on a real life relationship00:10:35.765 –> 00:10:38.455
between two guys who were sort of mob adjacent00:10:38.835 –> 00:10:41.215
and she couldn’t get this relationship out of her mind.00:10:41.595 –> 00:10:44.135
So it’s exactly what you’re saying, like the specifics00:10:44.355 –> 00:10:47.135
of the relationship between these two guys was00:10:47.135 –> 00:10:49.055
what ultimately gave rise to that movie.00:10:49.815 –> 00:10:52.375
I, it’s so funny ’cause I remember, um,00:10:53.635 –> 00:10:55.535
we were doing something, I don’t remember what scene it was,00:10:55.535 –> 00:10:57.335
but we were doing something on Freaks and Geeks,00:10:57.955 –> 00:11:00.535
and we were, Jeff and I were so excited00:11:00.695 –> 00:11:02.175
’cause it was, we thought other00:11:02.175 –> 00:11:03.615
Jeff Worked, it worked other Jeff.00:11:03.715 –> 00:11:05.575
Yes. Uh, yes, Jeff Judah.00:11:05.875 –> 00:11:10.495
And so we, the jokes all landed at the table read00:11:10.495 –> 00:11:12.495
where everyone gathers to listen to the script.00:11:13.155 –> 00:11:15.095
And all of that sort of worked great.00:11:15.195 –> 00:11:18.535
And, and Judd goes, look, that’s really funny,00:11:19.075 –> 00:11:20.135
but what’s the real version?00:11:20.915 –> 00:11:23.735
And so of course I was like, that’s00:11:23.845 –> 00:11:25.135
what is he talking about?00:11:25.235 –> 00:11:27.295
He just, everything landed. It was funnier.00:11:27.635 –> 00:11:30.375
And the truth of truth of the matter is00:11:30.375 –> 00:11:32.055
that the real version was funnier.00:11:32.735 –> 00:11:35.585
Like when we were actually deve delving deeper into,00:11:35.685 –> 00:11:37.145
and not just going for the joke.00:11:37.775 –> 00:11:41.425
Like taking something from our lives seemed to, you know,00:11:41.815 –> 00:11:43.385
just work way better.00:11:43.765 –> 00:11:45.105
You know, I just think that was really,00:11:45.165 –> 00:11:46.165
We had, yeah. We did00:11:46.165 –> 00:11:47.505
an episode of Will and Grace.00:11:47.565 –> 00:11:49.985
It was the funniest script I had ever.00:11:50.225 –> 00:11:51.465
I mean, of all, you know, I was on00:11:51.465 –> 00:11:52.545
that show for seven seasons.00:11:52.845 –> 00:11:54.085
It was the funniest group.00:11:54.085 –> 00:11:57.525
It was just Will and Grace Jack and Karen in a hospital,00:11:57.985 –> 00:11:59.245
and you know, that’s gonna be funny.00:11:59.245 –> 00:12:01.205
And we had a million funny little00:12:01.275 –> 00:12:02.565
bits here and there, blah, blah.00:12:02.665 –> 00:12:05.125
And it was like, it was all helium.00:12:05.585 –> 00:12:07.965
And the moment that we actually put its on, put,00:12:07.965 –> 00:12:09.845
its on its feet, all the helium went out of the balloon00:12:09.995 –> 00:12:13.005
because there was actually nothing real in it.00:12:13.105 –> 00:12:17.965
Wow. It was a series of com constructed comedic contrivances00:12:18.355 –> 00:12:19.685
that were all very funny.00:12:19.985 –> 00:12:22.605
But it wasn’t, I mean, if Judd had asked that question,00:12:22.625 –> 00:12:24.245
it would’ve saved us a very difficult week.00:12:24.895 –> 00:12:27.205
Right. Like, what’s the real of it? Right.00:12:28.435 –> 00:12:30.525
Exactly. In that case, we did not have one.00:12:31.095 –> 00:12:33.645
Right. Right. So how often, or,00:12:33.705 –> 00:12:36.285
or tell me about applying those storytelling techniques00:12:36.285 –> 00:12:37.685
to like your own projects.00:12:37.685 –> 00:12:39.805
And again, it doesn’t have to be, it could be photography00:12:39.905 –> 00:12:41.205
or anything like that.00:12:41.385 –> 00:12:43.645
How do you see yourself putting that stuff in? Well, I mean,00:12:44.495 –> 00:12:46.935
I mean, you know, I often think about, you know,00:12:47.375 –> 00:12:50.495
I always think about having to take these things00:12:50.515 –> 00:12:51.935
to the marketplace, either00:12:52.155 –> 00:12:54.215
as a finished product or as a pitch.00:12:54.795 –> 00:12:58.535
And I always feel like when you go out to the marketplace00:12:58.645 –> 00:13:01.335
with some piece of material, either you want to sell it00:13:01.475 –> 00:13:02.855
or it’s a screenplay you’ve written,00:13:02.915 –> 00:13:05.015
or it’s a film you’ve made, you always have00:13:05.015 –> 00:13:08.935
to answer three questions for the consumer, the person00:13:08.995 –> 00:13:11.015
who is gonna buy it or bankroll it or whatever.00:13:11.025 –> 00:13:14.095
Right. Why this, why now, and why me?00:13:15.175 –> 00:13:17.955
So what, in other words, what is the project?00:13:18.575 –> 00:13:22.075
Why, why is now the time to tell this story?00:13:22.105 –> 00:13:24.995
What is going on in the culture or in the zeitgeist?00:13:25.215 –> 00:13:28.515
What’s the under illuminated part of the human experience00:13:28.705 –> 00:13:29.755
that deserves attention?00:13:30.255 –> 00:13:32.475
And then finally, and this is the hardest thing of all,00:13:32.475 –> 00:13:36.035
sometimes why am I uniquely qualified to tell this story?00:13:36.835 –> 00:13:39.955
I, for example, am very interested in stories about00:13:39.975 –> 00:13:41.035
the American South.00:13:41.295 –> 00:13:44.275
It may not be clear to you guys from the sound of my voice,00:13:44.295 –> 00:13:45.755
but I grew up in Atlanta, Georgia.00:13:46.175 –> 00:13:49.115
And I think most stories about the South get it all wrong.00:13:49.815 –> 00:13:54.635
We are not a bunch of jingoistic, inbred, istic,00:13:55.095 –> 00:13:56.475
gun toting fundamentalists.00:13:56.475 –> 00:13:57.795
There’s a whole rainbow00:13:57.975 –> 00:13:59.835
of experiences in the American South.00:13:59.935 –> 00:14:01.555
And so I always think that like my00:14:02.065 –> 00:14:04.755
vantage point on Southern stories is00:14:04.755 –> 00:14:05.915
kind of unique and interesting.00:14:06.255 –> 00:14:07.875
And I think it still remains an under00:14:07.875 –> 00:14:09.355
illuminated aspect of the culture.00:14:09.695 –> 00:14:12.395
So I tend to set stories there a lot just00:14:12.395 –> 00:14:14.115
as a starting point because it doesn’t seem00:14:14.115 –> 00:14:15.195
like anybody else is doing it.00:14:15.345 –> 00:14:17.395
Yeah. It seems like a lot of shows take place in a00:14:17.555 –> 00:14:19.675
fictitious New York that features no black people.00:14:20.335 –> 00:14:23.155
Uh, so anyway, so it starts00:14:23.155 –> 00:14:25.795
with something emerging in the culture in my own00:14:25.795 –> 00:14:27.395
connection to it, ideally. Right,00:14:28.135 –> 00:14:29.135
Right. I feel that00:14:29.135 –> 00:14:31.125
it’s, it just becomes00:14:32.105 –> 00:14:33.885
so much more authentic also when you’re selling00:14:33.885 –> 00:14:35.005
it or talking to a friend.00:14:35.195 –> 00:14:37.645
Yeah. Or even talking to you about a story.00:14:37.835 –> 00:14:38.925
It’s a real story.00:14:39.305 –> 00:14:42.085
And it’s happened that I can be more passionate about it,00:14:42.605 –> 00:14:43.645
I can explore it more.00:14:44.005 –> 00:14:47.005
I can, you know, add more details to it. So Yeah.00:14:47.045 –> 00:14:49.565
I love that. Um, so if you were to write00:14:50.805 –> 00:14:52.465
your own personal narrative,00:14:52.605 –> 00:14:53.605
Oh dear.00:14:54.835 –> 00:14:57.265
Where Yes, where do you think you would start?00:14:59.335 –> 00:15:02.185
Well, I mean, I think you started moments of, uh,00:15:02.295 –> 00:15:03.625
high comedy or high drama.00:15:03.835 –> 00:15:06.145
Right. I mean, that’s often been the watch word00:15:06.165 –> 00:15:07.985
for me in storytelling in general.00:15:08.765 –> 00:15:11.985
Um, you know, when I think about high drama, I mean,00:15:11.985 –> 00:15:13.545
my mother died when I was 17.00:15:13.825 –> 00:15:15.625
I was a sophomore in college at the time.00:15:16.165 –> 00:15:18.225
Uh, I was a sophomore in college00:15:18.325 –> 00:15:19.545
at the time, is worth noting.00:15:19.665 –> 00:15:23.625
I was 17 years old. Um, it was a turning point in my life.00:15:23.805 –> 00:15:25.225
It definitely caused my life00:15:25.225 –> 00:15:27.145
to attack in a decidedly different direction.00:15:27.615 –> 00:15:29.505
Okay. Uh, the demise00:15:29.665 –> 00:15:31.505
of my marriage was an interesting00:15:31.505 –> 00:15:32.665
inflection point in my life.00:15:33.055 –> 00:15:35.825
Gabe has been around for the most recent inflection point.00:15:36.025 –> 00:15:39.345
I have a new love in my life, and she’s kind of amazing00:15:39.445 –> 00:15:40.465
and kind of famous.00:15:41.125 –> 00:15:42.625
So that’s a new weird thing.00:15:43.005 –> 00:15:44.905
So if I were telling the story,00:15:45.025 –> 00:15:48.065
I might drape it across those three Right.00:15:48.135 –> 00:15:49.985
Kind of tents, you know,00:15:50.345 –> 00:15:53.385
I think very interesting inflection points in a life00:15:53.385 –> 00:15:55.265
that’s had some very interesting twisted turns.00:15:55.785 –> 00:15:58.545
I think that’s great. ’cause I often go to the highs00:15:58.645 –> 00:16:00.145
and the lows, you know?00:16:00.145 –> 00:16:02.825
Yeah. Always going like, just finding extremes in your life00:16:02.965 –> 00:16:05.865
and figure out stuff to mine out of there.00:16:06.005 –> 00:16:08.345
And, you know, what was interesting about it00:16:08.405 –> 00:16:09.545
and how you were feeling.00:16:09.845 –> 00:16:13.385
And I’m often making those, you know, never ending lists00:16:13.525 –> 00:16:16.025
and, and in my notes and my iPhone00:16:16.085 –> 00:16:18.705
and just figuring out things to remember00:16:18.725 –> 00:16:21.745
and those details I think, which make them so unique00:16:21.745 –> 00:16:22.985
to you. I think that’s, that’s,00:16:23.135 –> 00:16:24.135
Yeah. I mean, you told me about00:16:24.135 –> 00:16:25.825
one of the projects that you00:16:25.825 –> 00:16:28.985
and Jeff Judah are writing, which is very personal for him,00:16:29.415 –> 00:16:32.345
very, you know, about a really weird thing00:16:32.345 –> 00:16:34.345
that happened in his family that like,00:16:34.405 –> 00:16:36.425
is tremendously specific to him.00:16:36.425 –> 00:16:38.305
That’s not a story I’ve heard a hundred thousand times.00:16:38.475 –> 00:16:40.865
Right. And I immediately get excited00:16:41.015 –> 00:16:44.265
because it means that’s gonna give me a window into an00:16:44.265 –> 00:16:45.745
experience I’m not gonna get anywhere else.00:16:45.955 –> 00:16:46.985
Right. And this is something00:16:46.985 –> 00:16:48.785
that you guys have done throughout your career.00:16:48.965 –> 00:16:53.225
You’ve always looked for eyes in to types of experiences00:16:53.405 –> 00:16:56.545
and milieu and so forth that are underrepresented00:16:56.685 –> 00:16:58.945
or looking at them from a cockeyed point of view.00:16:59.315 –> 00:17:03.465
Right. Uh, uh, Jeff’s had such a, Jeff,00:17:03.465 –> 00:17:06.985
there’s no shortage of Jeff Judah’s, uh, crazy stories.00:17:07.245 –> 00:17:11.185
But, um, so at a basic level, you know,00:17:12.455 –> 00:17:14.945
obviously storytelling is an amazing tool00:17:14.945 –> 00:17:16.225
to connect with other people.00:17:16.645 –> 00:17:20.205
Um, and there’s something, you know,00:17:20.205 –> 00:17:21.565
you’ve obviously worked on shows00:17:21.685 –> 00:17:24.085
that have had huge, huge audiences.00:17:24.265 –> 00:17:26.765
So are you thinking about00:17:26.765 –> 00:17:27.925
that when you’re developing a story?00:17:27.985 –> 00:17:31.525
Or how do you think about making connections00:17:31.525 –> 00:17:33.245
with an audience when you’re starting a story?00:17:34.405 –> 00:17:36.255
This is a tough one, Gabe.00:17:36.715 –> 00:17:38.135
Uh, because the truth is,00:17:38.135 –> 00:17:42.015
and this is gonna sound really gross, uh, I can answer00:17:42.015 –> 00:17:43.095
that question in one of two ways.00:17:43.635 –> 00:17:46.255
Either I would say I don’t think about the audience at all.00:17:46.495 –> 00:17:48.215
’cause I don’t real, I don’t.00:17:48.475 –> 00:17:49.485
But on the other hand,00:17:50.085 –> 00:17:51.765
I did not have a film school education.00:17:52.035 –> 00:17:54.285
Okay. Okay. I had an art school education,00:17:54.825 –> 00:17:58.085
and my audience, when I’m writing, I’m kind of writing00:17:58.345 –> 00:17:59.565
for an audience of one,00:17:59.825 –> 00:18:04.485
but at the same time, I need to believe in the paths00:18:04.485 –> 00:18:05.805
that the characters are taking.00:18:06.085 –> 00:18:08.565
I need, I often find myself saying in writers’ rooms,00:18:09.045 –> 00:18:11.205
I don’t think I’d do that if I were her.00:18:11.845 –> 00:18:13.845
I just don’t think I’d do that. Right.00:18:14.065 –> 00:18:16.565
And that, I guess is me kind of taking on the role00:18:17.105 –> 00:18:19.645
of the audience member watching a character00:18:19.645 –> 00:18:22.205
and making sure that I’m maintaining even a tenuous00:18:22.635 –> 00:18:25.205
emotional connection between what an audience,00:18:25.805 –> 00:18:29.445
audience wants or desires or doesn’t want or doesn’t desire.00:18:29.705 –> 00:18:31.365
Oh my God, I can’t believe she’s going there.00:18:31.505 –> 00:18:33.085
Oh my God, I can’t believe he’s doing that.00:18:33.395 –> 00:18:35.125
That is keeping you interested. Yeah.00:18:35.225 –> 00:18:36.845
But I’m always thinking of it in terms00:18:36.845 –> 00:18:39.645
of like the audience’s emotional connection00:18:39.645 –> 00:18:42.765
to the characters, and the story has to be maintained,00:18:43.425 –> 00:18:46.405
you know, otherwise eventually people00:18:46.835 –> 00:18:48.125
lose interest and drift away.00:18:48.125 –> 00:18:50.325
We have so many viewing options. Right.00:18:50.325 –> 00:18:53.685
And if you don’t keep people engaged with the story,00:18:53.955 –> 00:18:56.045
like emotionally caught up in the story,00:18:56.235 –> 00:18:57.805
they have a lot of other things they can watch.00:18:58.275 –> 00:19:00.445
Yeah. I’m often, I’m thinking about that.00:19:00.555 –> 00:19:04.405
It’s hard sort of, when we do what we do where00:19:04.945 –> 00:19:08.845
you’re not thinking about the audience, I think that we tend00:19:08.845 –> 00:19:09.965
to reel ourselves back00:19:10.065 –> 00:19:13.665
and go, okay, at least is it relatable?00:19:13.665 –> 00:19:15.625
Yeah. Do we feel like these things are relatable00:19:15.645 –> 00:19:17.305
or people will understand these experiences?00:19:17.465 –> 00:19:22.225
I think that’s where, um, I think that’s what excites us.00:19:22.455 –> 00:19:24.265
Yeah. I think it’s sort of figuring that out.00:19:24.385 –> 00:19:27.425
I think if we think of a giant audience, we get,00:19:27.535 –> 00:19:31.225
also get a little nervous of are we just, are we going to00:19:31.885 –> 00:19:33.425
doctor it a little bit and,00:19:33.565 –> 00:19:36.145
and sort of make it palat more palatable00:19:36.145 –> 00:19:38.625
to the audiences than it needs to be? So yeah, you can’t,00:19:38.685 –> 00:19:41.705
You can’t possibly please an audience that size00:19:41.705 –> 00:19:42.825
and they don’t know what they want.00:19:43.145 –> 00:19:44.945
I mean, Gabe, you’ve heard me say this before,00:19:45.165 –> 00:19:48.225
but I often say no one was asking00:19:48.365 –> 00:19:50.785
for breaking Bad nobody.00:19:50.885 –> 00:19:52.225
No, no, no. We talked about that. Yeah.00:19:52.575 –> 00:19:54.505
Yeah. Nobody was asking for that show.00:19:54.505 –> 00:19:56.465
And no focus group would’ve said,00:19:57.145 –> 00:19:58.385
I would love to watch that show.00:19:58.385 –> 00:20:00.945
Right. If you describe the one-liner of Breaking Back,00:20:00.945 –> 00:20:01.945
They didn’t like it at all.00:20:02.095 –> 00:20:03.225
Yeah, it sounds awful.00:20:03.525 –> 00:20:06.665
It sounds like a terrible idea for a show, you know, and00:20:07.205 –> 00:20:10.185
but I, one of the great drama series ever created.00:20:10.575 –> 00:20:13.385
Yeah. You know, a game changer in a lot of respects.00:20:13.645 –> 00:20:15.745
And, and it starts, I mean, it starts00:20:15.745 –> 00:20:19.145
with a very palpable drive for a character who’s in trouble.00:20:19.685 –> 00:20:21.865
But all the specifics are cockeyed the00:20:22.105 –> 00:20:23.785
location, the Oh, yeah, no, no.00:20:23.885 –> 00:20:26.545
The look of the protagonist, what he’s doing with his life,00:20:26.725 –> 00:20:28.625
his wife, his son, his relationships,00:20:28.855 –> 00:20:30.305
they’re all off kilter.00:20:30.725 –> 00:20:33.585
And yet that connection that you’re talking about,00:20:34.455 –> 00:20:35.465
it’s really strong.00:20:37.325 –> 00:20:39.065
Can I, can I jump in for a second too?00:20:39.065 –> 00:20:41.145
Of course, of course. What I loved about00:20:41.145 –> 00:20:43.225
what you just said is it’s also very, I00:20:43.255 –> 00:20:46.305
that really resonates with me in business as well.00:20:47.075 –> 00:20:49.325
It’s the same thing with products. It’s the same thing.00:20:49.325 –> 00:20:51.245
Yeah. It’s business strategy, right?00:20:51.275 –> 00:20:53.685
Like, it’s the whole Henry Ford thing, you know?00:20:53.985 –> 00:20:56.285
Um, if, if, if you’d asked people what they wanted,00:20:56.285 –> 00:20:58.565
they would’ve said faster, a faster horse, you know?00:20:58.705 –> 00:21:02.885
Yes. A car, you know, I think many of us face, you know,00:21:03.385 –> 00:21:05.765
you have to face that as a leader to have the vision00:21:06.145 –> 00:21:07.365
and hold that in your head.00:21:07.565 –> 00:21:10.645
I love the idea of that being tied to the, you know, to kind00:21:10.645 –> 00:21:15.405
of the authenticity around, um, just being, knowing what,00:21:15.475 –> 00:21:17.125
what is the authentic thing you’re trying00:21:17.125 –> 00:21:18.365
to do and bring into the world.00:21:19.425 –> 00:21:21.045
One of the things coming into this program,00:21:21.185 –> 00:21:23.845
the reason why we wanted to start with storytelling is00:21:24.265 –> 00:21:27.565
as leaders, and you know, you, you’ll have to wear two hats00:21:27.565 –> 00:21:30.085
for this question, but as leaders, a lot00:21:30.085 –> 00:21:33.525
of times people say, um, you end up being a per, you have00:21:33.525 –> 00:21:35.845
to be a person that you,00:21:35.845 –> 00:21:37.125
you don’t nec It’s not really00:21:37.275 –> 00:21:38.925
necessarily who you are, right.00:21:38.925 –> 00:21:41.245
Or who you relate to, but you’ve had to be this person00:21:41.545 –> 00:21:42.765
for a really long time.00:21:43.345 –> 00:21:46.485
And how do you actually get back to your authentic self?00:21:46.545 –> 00:21:48.885
So I, I’m curious for, you know, as writers00:21:49.425 –> 00:21:52.685
and as storytellers, you know, there’s the part of you00:21:52.685 –> 00:21:55.445
that probably relates to being like a struggling writer,00:21:55.535 –> 00:21:57.485
being in New York, being in a small apartment,00:21:57.665 –> 00:21:59.165
but you’re both incredibly successful.00:21:59.545 –> 00:22:01.925
How do you, where, what place do you write from?00:22:02.225 –> 00:22:03.565
You know, how do you,00:22:03.565 –> 00:22:05.885
how do you think about creating stories from the authentic00:22:05.935 –> 00:22:09.245
place, and then how do you bring in some of the confidence00:22:09.245 –> 00:22:12.845
that comes along with, with that professional experience?00:22:13.985 –> 00:22:18.835
Well, I think that you’re also, um, you know,00:22:18.865 –> 00:22:21.795
it’s going back to those, those innocent times.00:22:21.975 –> 00:22:23.275
And I think that that’s something00:22:23.275 –> 00:22:26.395
that can bring everyone back to a time00:22:26.405 –> 00:22:28.515
where you were struggling a little bit00:22:29.215 –> 00:22:31.395
and what was really important to you00:22:31.535 –> 00:22:33.795
and what you, what, what your dreams were.00:22:33.975 –> 00:22:37.475
So, you know, a lot of us go on this career path, and,00:22:37.615 –> 00:22:40.635
and maybe there was something else we could have veered off00:22:40.775 –> 00:22:43.275
to do, but we sort of went on this path,00:22:43.495 –> 00:22:45.355
we became successful at it.00:22:46.015 –> 00:22:48.035
And I think when starting something new00:22:48.255 –> 00:22:51.275
or just developing a story, at least I go back00:22:51.275 –> 00:22:54.515
to those times and sort of what, what was important to me00:22:55.255 –> 00:22:58.875
and what are values that I had then that would, you know,00:22:58.875 –> 00:23:00.155
contribute to a story.00:23:00.375 –> 00:23:03.355
So, uh, that’s, that’s sort of what I think about.00:23:03.705 –> 00:23:04.705
Jeff, what do you think about00:23:06.645 –> 00:23:09.775
Yeah, I, I rarely, it’s so funny you say the way you,00:23:09.835 –> 00:23:12.095
you rolled that out, Tara was really interesting to me00:23:12.095 –> 00:23:13.615
because I don’t think, I mean,00:23:13.615 –> 00:23:15.175
this is gonna sound really disingenuous,00:23:15.175 –> 00:23:18.815
but I don’t think of myself, uh, in the way you can,00:23:19.115 –> 00:23:20.335
the way you described.00:23:20.975 –> 00:23:25.655
I still think of myself as an outcast and a loser,00:23:25.795 –> 00:23:27.815
and an outlier and a weirdo,00:23:28.155 –> 00:23:31.375
and all of that was inculcated in me at a very early age.00:23:31.835 –> 00:23:34.255
And I don’t think I will ever feel any other way.00:23:34.675 –> 00:23:36.975
I’m six decades into this adventure.00:23:37.555 –> 00:23:39.375
And, uh, I think it is unlikely00:23:39.375 –> 00:23:42.935
that I will ever feel if there is a circle, I am outside it.00:23:43.745 –> 00:23:46.245
Um, and I think it is why so many of the stories00:23:46.245 –> 00:23:50.045
that I tell are about people who feel outside the circle00:23:50.185 –> 00:23:51.405
and why those resonate.00:23:51.485 –> 00:23:53.405
I mean, this aligns with what Gabe just said.00:23:54.205 –> 00:23:55.685
Everyone feels like an outsider.00:23:55.985 –> 00:23:57.765
One of the things that really struck me when I went00:23:57.765 –> 00:23:58.965
to my 20th high school reunion00:23:59.185 –> 00:24:01.965
and talked to all the pretty girls that I was too afraid of,00:24:02.665 –> 00:24:05.645
uh, when I was in school, they all were scared.00:24:06.685 –> 00:24:07.685
Everyone was terrified.00:24:08.035 –> 00:24:09.805
This is what Freaks and Geeks was about,00:24:10.665 –> 00:24:12.005
is up and down the line.00:24:12.525 –> 00:24:15.325
Everyone is scared, worried, anxious, uncertain.00:24:15.905 –> 00:24:17.245
No one has the thing wired.00:24:17.465 –> 00:24:18.645
And I don’t think that’s just true00:24:18.785 –> 00:24:20.485
of high school students, right?00:24:20.645 –> 00:24:22.125
I think that’s true of everybody.00:24:22.805 –> 00:24:25.285
Everyone is unsettled and thwarted.00:24:25.905 –> 00:24:29.325
No one reaches a a summit of perfect happiness00:24:29.325 –> 00:24:32.045
and contentment, or they’re not interesting to write about.00:24:32.185 –> 00:24:34.045
Boy, the Sun came out while I was saying that. Look at you.00:24:34.045 –> 00:24:36.645
That interesting. Look at you. I, I became, yes. I know.00:24:36.725 –> 00:24:38.125
A glow hit me isn’t amazing.00:24:38.685 –> 00:24:41.405
I know. It, it must’ve been the truth. Truth, yes. See,00:24:41.945 –> 00:24:42.945
Yes. So00:24:42.945 –> 00:24:45.845
always. Yeah. I, all great stories are about people00:24:45.905 –> 00:24:46.925
who are thwarted.00:24:47.225 –> 00:24:50.805
And character always involves a drive the distance between00:24:50.825 –> 00:24:52.405
who you are and who you would like to be.00:24:52.515 –> 00:24:53.805
Otherwise, there’s no story.00:24:54.225 –> 00:24:56.245
You know, there’s no, there’s no, I,00:24:56.365 –> 00:24:59.365
I watched a show the other night, which moved so slowly,00:24:59.905 –> 00:25:01.965
and I really wish that the people who made it,00:25:02.435 –> 00:25:04.565
this is like a 10 episode Netflix series,00:25:04.825 –> 00:25:06.045
and I watched the first episode.00:25:06.085 –> 00:25:08.605
I was like, where’s the vector of this show?00:25:08.605 –> 00:25:09.605
Where are the drives?00:25:10.245 –> 00:25:12.005
Everyone is very pretty and serene,00:25:12.345 –> 00:25:15.165
but like, where is the, the thwarted ness?00:25:15.515 –> 00:25:16.925
Like that’s, to that’s my, like,00:25:17.505 –> 00:25:19.285
oxygen in watching something.00:25:19.555 –> 00:25:21.885
It’s like, how are they not the people they wanna be?00:25:22.485 –> 00:25:23.485
I don’t get it.00:25:24.955 –> 00:25:26.565
Yeah. No, that’s, that’s, that’s great.00:25:26.745 –> 00:25:28.805
Um, I’d like to open it up to questions.00:25:28.915 –> 00:25:30.125
Does anybody have a question00:25:30.145 –> 00:25:33.205
and feel brave enough to, uh, to ask Live00:25:33.545 –> 00:25:35.045
for Gabe or for Jeff?00:25:37.095 –> 00:25:38.915
Oh, look, they’re, oh my God.00:25:38.965 –> 00:25:41.595
We’ve, we’ve terrified them. We’ve terrified them.00:25:41.895 –> 00:25:43.995
Oh. Uh, Amy, Amy has their hand raised.00:25:44.255 –> 00:25:46.715
Oh, good. Thank you so much.00:25:46.905 –> 00:25:48.395
This is completely exciting00:25:48.495 –> 00:25:50.035
to be attending something like this.00:25:50.455 –> 00:25:52.115
And thank you so much David and Jeff00:25:52.115 –> 00:25:53.795
and Tara for putting on this program.00:25:54.335 –> 00:25:58.395
My question for you is, when you have a story in your head,00:25:58.735 –> 00:26:02.155
and you can clearly see it playing out in your head,00:26:03.015 –> 00:26:07.875
but you don’t have the strength or the fortitude00:26:08.015 –> 00:26:10.515
or the confidence to put it down on paper,00:26:11.535 –> 00:26:12.665
what would you tell me?00:26:16.495 –> 00:26:18.095
I would tell You, Gabe, you wanted to start.00:26:18.245 –> 00:26:20.775
Yeah. You know, ’cause I know this feeling like I00:26:21.035 –> 00:26:24.975
so know this feeling, and it’s, it’s really about00:26:26.025 –> 00:26:28.575
being alone and actually00:26:29.285 –> 00:26:31.295
just doing a brainstorm list.00:26:31.355 –> 00:26:35.855
It sounds crazy. It’s, it’s the way, what we call it, and,00:26:36.195 –> 00:26:39.535
and many writers call this is getting out a vomit draft.00:26:39.755 –> 00:26:42.695
So it’s your first draft,00:26:42.795 –> 00:26:45.245
and so you take your whatever idea,00:26:45.305 –> 00:26:47.685
it doesn’t matter if it makes any sense whatsoever,00:26:48.355 –> 00:26:49.965
it’s just get taking a list00:26:49.985 –> 00:26:52.365
or taking a pad of paper, going somewhere where you, like,00:26:52.745 –> 00:26:55.805
it can be quiet, whatever, whatever helps you chill.00:26:56.425 –> 00:26:59.005
And just write everything that comes to mind.00:26:59.185 –> 00:27:02.685
And you’ll be shocked at how that sort00:27:02.685 –> 00:27:04.365
of formulates into something.00:27:04.865 –> 00:27:06.925
And you’ll, you’ll see, the more you do it,00:27:06.985 –> 00:27:10.125
the more you’ll have confidence in, uh,00:27:10.745 –> 00:27:13.405
the more you have confidence in putting those ideas00:27:13.625 –> 00:27:17.325
or memories or things that are, you know, make you nervous00:27:17.585 –> 00:27:19.285
to, to get out of you.00:27:19.425 –> 00:27:22.965
And I think that if you do that, you will see it’ll happen.00:27:23.305 –> 00:27:25.245
It really does happen. It’s, yeah.00:27:26.225 –> 00:27:30.645
The worst thing in the world is the fact that the name00:27:30.745 –> 00:27:34.405
of the screenwriting program that we all use is Final Draft.00:27:34.475 –> 00:27:37.685
Because what that means is that when you open a window00:27:38.265 –> 00:27:41.925
on your computer, it says final draft at the top.00:27:43.275 –> 00:27:44.765
It’s not the final draft.00:27:45.285 –> 00:27:50.245
I use a notepad program that is completely like uncritical00:27:50.305 –> 00:27:52.325
of me, and I do exactly what Gabe says.00:27:52.605 –> 00:27:55.645
I have a friend who, when she, when she was struggling00:27:55.645 –> 00:27:59.085
to write the first draft of an outline, she wrote, dear Mom,00:27:59.785 –> 00:28:01.045
here’s what I’m working on.00:28:01.315 –> 00:28:03.885
It’s a story about, and then she just kept typing.00:28:04.185 –> 00:28:06.085
And then she cut dear Mom off the top,00:28:07.185 –> 00:28:11.325
or take a friend of yours to lunch and tell her00:28:11.465 –> 00:28:14.645
or him what it’s about, and record the conversation.00:28:14.985 –> 00:28:17.045
And then when you get home, transcribe it.00:28:17.805 –> 00:28:20.125
Anything that gets, like what Gabe was describing, anything00:28:20.125 –> 00:28:23.245
that gets the pen moving, like, oh my God.00:28:23.385 –> 00:28:26.605
The, the, the, the an, you know, what’s antithetical00:28:26.605 –> 00:28:29.285
to creativity is that self-critical thing that we all have.00:28:29.375 –> 00:28:32.685
Right. And so you just have to smash through it somehow.00:28:32.935 –> 00:28:35.445
Trick yourself into smashing through it,00:28:35.445 –> 00:28:36.965
because we all have to do it.00:28:38.215 –> 00:28:42.475
That’s great advice. Um, let’s go to Harry next.00:28:42.615 –> 00:28:43.755
And then Jean, I see you00:28:43.755 –> 00:28:44.835
have your hand raised. You’ll be next.00:28:45.815 –> 00:28:47.075
Uh, thank you. Thank you00:28:47.075 –> 00:28:48.435
gentlemen for sharing your knowledge.00:28:48.435 –> 00:28:51.595
This is great. Um, I’m wondering if either of you have, uh,00:28:51.615 –> 00:28:56.195
any thoughts on like Joseph Campbell’s Hero’s Journey, uh,00:28:56.575 –> 00:28:59.115
his work or Robert McGee’s book on story,00:28:59.115 –> 00:29:01.355
do you have any recommendations, uh, you know,00:29:01.635 –> 00:29:04.505
anything you like that you trust in terms00:29:04.525 –> 00:29:06.785
of teaching story concept?00:29:07.455 –> 00:29:12.205
Yeah. Uh, you’re gonna hate this answer. Okay.00:29:12.445 –> 00:29:15.325
I read Joseph Campbell College, you know, as we all did.00:29:15.465 –> 00:29:18.085
And I watched the Bill Moyers thing, you know,00:29:18.705 –> 00:29:20.645
Joseph Caroll and the Power of Myth.00:29:21.155 –> 00:29:24.645
It’s all great. You can learn more from watching all the00:29:24.645 –> 00:29:26.685
president’s men and the Bad News Bears00:29:26.685 –> 00:29:27.725
and the Palm Beach story00:29:27.945 –> 00:29:31.925
and The Godfather than you can from any number of Sid Field,00:29:32.225 –> 00:29:35.765
Robert McKee, a shelf of screenwriting books.00:29:36.225 –> 00:29:37.725
You could waste your time reading them,00:29:37.745 –> 00:29:42.245
or you could just go watch, as I said,00:29:43.265 –> 00:29:45.065
a great movie and take it apart00:29:45.205 –> 00:29:46.625
and examine how it’s put together.00:29:47.545 –> 00:29:49.265
I never studied the00:29:49.335 –> 00:29:50.335
Yeah. The simplest,00:29:50.335 –> 00:29:52.425
you know, points.00:29:52.615 –> 00:29:56.125
It’s like you take a movie and just sort of just watch it00:29:56.125 –> 00:29:57.405
and watch a scene over and over00:29:57.465 –> 00:29:58.685
and see how it’s constructed.00:29:58.865 –> 00:30:01.445
And that’s gonna be, it’s definitely gonna00:30:01.725 –> 00:30:02.845
be way more valuable.00:30:03.545 –> 00:30:07.125
And it doesn’t, it’s not about, you know, the film school.00:30:07.195 –> 00:30:08.365
It’s not about the book.00:30:08.465 –> 00:30:10.565
And, and the thing is that, um,00:30:11.535 –> 00:30:14.675
the book is also just one person’s idea of00:30:14.815 –> 00:30:16.115
how everyone should sort of do it.00:30:16.135 –> 00:30:19.595
And it’s really something that’s so individual that,00:30:21.025 –> 00:30:22.605
you know, I, I agree with Jeff.00:30:22.675 –> 00:30:24.405
It’s like watching, watching00:30:24.405 –> 00:30:26.085
and watching. And I think structurally00:30:26.085 –> 00:30:27.085
That’s what I resonated00:30:27.085 –> 00:30:28.805
with Jeff saying he didn’t go to film school.00:30:28.955 –> 00:30:30.805
Yeah. And what I find is we have00:30:30.805 –> 00:30:34.045
to teach these young students how to unlearn some00:30:34.045 –> 00:30:35.045
Of the students. Yeah, yeah.00:30:35.045 –> 00:30:36.045
Totally. It’s, it’s00:30:36.045 –> 00:30:37.045
Amazing. Anything that, you00:30:37.045 –> 00:30:39.365
know, after Sid Fields’s book00:30:39.365 –> 00:30:42.645
Screenwriting came out, i, I, at the time, I worked, uh,00:30:42.905 –> 00:30:46.365
as a reader at a small, um, uh, production company.00:30:46.785 –> 00:30:47.845
And I would read script00:30:47.845 –> 00:30:49.205
after script where they made sure00:30:49.205 –> 00:30:51.205
that the inciting incident hit on page 10.00:30:51.225 –> 00:30:54.845
And then the first twist, I could just see Sid Field talking00:30:54.995 –> 00:30:57.965
through these writers, like, your first act page needs00:30:57.965 –> 00:30:59.205
to hit on page 30,00:30:59.265 –> 00:31:01.645
and then the pivot point needs to be on page 60.00:31:01.705 –> 00:31:04.485
And they’re, they were all very mathematical and boring.00:31:07.005 –> 00:31:11.795
Jeff, tell about when, um, member Mark Cherry asked you,00:31:11.795 –> 00:31:15.155
where, what was the, uh, the00:31:16.265 –> 00:31:18.685
second act complicating?00:31:19.075 –> 00:31:20.325
What was it? I can’t remember, but it00:31:20.325 –> 00:31:21.885
Was, I mean, he, mark had this,00:31:22.115 –> 00:31:25.725
this like screenwriting paradigm in his, in his head00:31:25.755 –> 00:31:29.485
that was very important to him about like inciting incident.00:31:29.995 –> 00:31:32.765
Like, and he had all these terms that were not McKee,00:31:32.765 –> 00:31:34.365
there were somebody else, but there was like the00:31:34.365 –> 00:31:35.805
escalating complication.00:31:35.985 –> 00:31:37.885
That’s it, that’s what it was. The crisis. The prog.00:31:37.885 –> 00:31:40.125
Oh, progressive complication. Yes.00:31:40.145 –> 00:31:42.565
He would always say, what’s the progressive complication?00:31:42.585 –> 00:31:43.845
I’m like, mark, I don’t know.00:31:44.385 –> 00:31:47.645
All I know is that I’m gonna stay interested if the two00:31:47.645 –> 00:31:50.165
of them jump into bed right now, if you want to call00:31:50.165 –> 00:31:53.125
that the progressive complication, go right ahead.00:31:53.415 –> 00:31:56.445
Right. But it’s like, I just want to see what happens when,00:31:57.225 –> 00:31:58.685
and then I wanna deal with the fallout,00:31:58.825 –> 00:32:00.165
and then I wanna deal out with the00:32:00.165 –> 00:32:01.525
repair job of the fallout.00:32:02.025 –> 00:32:04.325
You know? And I know that sounds very boring,00:32:04.705 –> 00:32:07.805
but it’s, it’s far less boring than trying to figure out how00:32:07.805 –> 00:32:11.485
to get the a the act break to hit precisely on page 60.00:32:11.855 –> 00:32:12.855
Right,00:32:13.775 –> 00:32:14.775
Right. Can we00:32:14.775 –> 00:32:17.725
go to Gina’s question and then send Gita?00:32:17.725 –> 00:32:19.205
You’ll be behind Gina, and then,00:32:19.225 –> 00:32:21.405
and then I think we can also take some questions about the00:32:21.405 –> 00:32:22.565
program, if anybody has any.00:32:22.565 –> 00:32:23.845
But these are way more interesting00:32:23.915 –> 00:32:25.325
than anything we’re gonna have to say.00:32:28.095 –> 00:32:29.155
Uh, thank you Taran.00:32:29.415 –> 00:32:31.715
Um, Gabe, Jeff, thank you so much for this.00:32:32.075 –> 00:32:34.755
I, I have a question. One of you, forgive me, I can’t recall00:32:34.755 –> 00:32:36.155
who said it, but you remarked on00:32:36.175 –> 00:32:38.755
how nobody would’ve asked for breaking bad.00:32:38.755 –> 00:32:43.725
Right? And if you have some brilliantly hair-brained idea,00:32:44.175 –> 00:32:47.045
where do you go from there, uh, to drive it forward00:32:47.075 –> 00:32:50.485
that it’s, it’s not a compelling pitch at first blush00:32:50.625 –> 00:32:51.765
to someone outside.00:32:51.905 –> 00:32:53.605
How, how do you drive that forward? Then00:32:54.525 –> 00:32:56.615
It’s really mining those pieces.00:32:56.805 –> 00:33:01.295
It’s like, to you, it might not be a compelling pitch.00:33:01.405 –> 00:33:02.895
Like, if, if that makes any sense.00:33:02.925 –> 00:33:04.535
It’s like you’re going, oh, who’s gonna be00:33:04.925 –> 00:33:06.015
that interested in that?00:33:06.115 –> 00:33:09.255
But, but you’ll actually have a unique perspective00:33:09.955 –> 00:33:11.655
on whatever story you’re trying to tell.00:33:11.655 –> 00:33:13.655
You’ll actually, it’s, you’ll,00:33:13.675 –> 00:33:15.175
you’ll go, that’s interesting.00:33:15.645 –> 00:33:16.775
I’ve done that a million times.00:33:17.415 –> 00:33:18.775
I just go, that can’t be interesting.00:33:18.875 –> 00:33:22.815
So there, you know, one way is, again,00:33:22.875 –> 00:33:26.255
to get everything down and to get the pieces down,00:33:26.515 –> 00:33:29.655
and then you start whittling away where you’re hitting00:33:30.355 –> 00:33:31.815
the highlights, you’re hitting,00:33:31.815 –> 00:33:33.335
here’s the best points of this.00:33:33.955 –> 00:33:35.655
And you’ll see as you do that,00:33:36.025 –> 00:33:38.495
it’ll develop into something, you know, sure.00:33:38.495 –> 00:33:39.575
There’s structural things.00:33:39.575 –> 00:33:41.455
Like, here’s the world we’re in,00:33:41.875 –> 00:33:44.295
here’s our characters, why are they there?00:33:44.875 –> 00:33:47.895
All that stuff. But leading up to that, you can actually,00:33:48.355 –> 00:33:52.855
you know, just start putting down pieces of your own story.00:33:53.735 –> 00:33:55.215
I mean, this is, this is what I say, Jeff.00:33:56.015 –> 00:33:57.345
Yeah. Make it personal.00:33:58.355 –> 00:34:00.675
I mean, that’s the, the,00:34:00.735 –> 00:34:02.595
the trick is always making it personal.00:34:02.815 –> 00:34:04.915
You know, don’t think about what they want.00:34:05.205 –> 00:34:07.395
Think about like the story you’re burning to tell.00:34:07.975 –> 00:34:10.075
Uh, and if you’re burning to tell it,00:34:10.465 –> 00:34:12.315
then it turns into a great pitch.00:34:12.775 –> 00:34:14.755
That’s it. It automatically does.00:34:15.255 –> 00:34:16.995
If it’s something you’re excited about00:34:17.135 –> 00:34:18.995
or something that’s intensely personal00:34:19.175 –> 00:34:20.915
or something you are angry about00:34:20.915 –> 00:34:22.715
because no one else is talking about it00:34:23.015 –> 00:34:25.155
or something, you, you’re like, I gotta do this00:34:25.155 –> 00:34:27.435
before somebody else does, that passion00:34:27.655 –> 00:34:31.115
and enthusiasm will come across to make a pitch.00:34:31.115 –> 00:34:32.635
Fantastic. Okay.00:34:32.935 –> 00:34:36.075
You know, it does not have to be my former writing partner00:34:36.075 –> 00:34:37.115
and I had a running joke00:34:37.115 –> 00:34:40.835
that the best pitch was Wall Street Banker loses everything00:34:40.895 –> 00:34:42.675
and has to go to work at a phish market.00:34:43.925 –> 00:34:46.105
Now, you could absolutely see that move.00:34:46.265 –> 00:34:49.145
I mean, but like, that sounds like a great Phish chat.00:34:49.145 –> 00:34:50.705
Literally fish out of order premise.00:34:50.845 –> 00:34:53.025
But it’s like, come on now, what’s it about?00:34:53.365 –> 00:34:55.905
Why do you wanna make it? That’s, those are the questions00:34:55.905 –> 00:34:57.825
that, that when Gabe00:34:57.825 –> 00:35:00.225
and I are taking stuff to the marketplace that we need00:35:00.225 –> 00:35:04.185
to answer, and when we are reading writers for staffing00:35:04.185 –> 00:35:06.145
or whatever, we want to see that they know how00:35:06.145 –> 00:35:07.305
to answer those questions too.00:35:07.965 –> 00:35:12.185
And it doesn’t. And, and also another thing is that we,00:35:13.045 –> 00:35:15.585
you know, we’ll see everyone, we, we want00:35:15.585 –> 00:35:17.225
to hear stories and things like that.00:35:17.225 –> 00:35:18.985
And I remember there was a writer00:35:19.005 –> 00:35:20.065
who, she didn’t have a script.00:35:20.125 –> 00:35:21.545
She had a, she was a poet,00:35:22.575 –> 00:35:25.035
and it turned out it was Lila Gerstein who went on00:35:25.035 –> 00:35:26.955
to create, you know, a bunch of shows.00:35:27.735 –> 00:35:31.635
Um, but it was just something about these personal Yeah.00:35:31.865 –> 00:35:33.755
Stories. And we connected with that,00:35:33.755 –> 00:35:36.715
and we realized that the technical aspect is something00:35:36.715 –> 00:35:38.445
that’s, that can be learned.00:35:38.955 –> 00:35:41.445
It’s, it’s the stuff of really getting to the meat00:35:41.445 –> 00:35:43.645
of a story that’s hard to sort of get to.00:35:44.445 –> 00:35:48.085
I tried to hire Joey Soloway, uh, um,00:35:48.135 –> 00:35:52.285
early in Joey’s career based on a monologue called Courtney00:35:52.655 –> 00:35:55.525
Cox’s A*****e, which was, did you ever read it? She’s00:35:55.605 –> 00:35:56.125
Hysterical. Yeah.00:35:56.135 –> 00:35:57.245
She’s unbelievable.00:35:57.425 –> 00:35:58.605
And it was told from the point of view00:35:58.605 –> 00:36:01.285
of Courtney Cox’s personal assistant, it was just an essay.00:36:01.585 –> 00:36:03.645
But when you got to the end of this essay, you’re like,00:36:03.845 –> 00:36:06.725
I gotta know who this writer is. I gotta know who this00:36:06.785 –> 00:36:07.785
Is. Yeah. That’s not, so, that’s not in00:36:07.785 –> 00:36:08.325
the script form.00:36:08.425 –> 00:36:10.765
So, so any idea you’re having00:36:11.715 –> 00:36:15.245
that you may not think is compelling, you’ll be surprised00:36:15.425 –> 00:36:19.125
as you work on it, as you write it down, as you, you know,00:36:19.185 –> 00:36:21.885
narrow it down as you mine pieces out of it,00:36:22.475 –> 00:36:23.965
over time, you’re gonna have something.00:36:23.995 –> 00:36:26.045
It’s, it’s really compelling to others. Yeah.00:36:28.015 –> 00:36:30.755
All right. Um, Sanita, do you wanna ask your question?00:36:32.625 –> 00:36:35.875
Yeah, sure. Um, so I guess my question was actually really00:36:35.875 –> 00:36:37.315
similar to what’s being asked.00:36:37.495 –> 00:36:39.755
So you’ve put down some thoughts,00:36:39.815 –> 00:36:41.035
you have something written,00:36:41.615 –> 00:36:43.715
but you’re still sort of, I guess you’ve been saying00:36:43.775 –> 00:36:45.195
how get to the meat of it.00:36:45.455 –> 00:36:47.355
How do you know you’ve gotten to the meat of it?00:36:48.745 –> 00:36:50.075
Look, this is where really00:36:50.275 –> 00:36:51.275
Interesting too. You00:36:51.275 –> 00:36:53.155
think, oh my God, this is absolutely00:36:53.155 –> 00:36:54.435
what it is. But is it?00:36:55.245 –> 00:36:56.455
Yeah, but th this is the,00:36:56.455 –> 00:36:58.735
this is the whole thing about feedback.00:36:58.855 –> 00:37:00.375
I mean, look, I’m lucky, you know,00:37:00.405 –> 00:37:02.055
Jeff early on had a writing partner.00:37:02.195 –> 00:37:04.515
But, you know, I can go to Jeff00:37:04.515 –> 00:37:05.715
and say, what do you think of this?00:37:05.735 –> 00:37:09.355
But yeah, when, when you’re able to get feedback for00:37:09.995 –> 00:37:11.755
whatever you’re working on mm-Hmm.00:37:11.975 –> 00:37:13.955
And you, your trusted group of friends,00:37:14.095 –> 00:37:16.555
and you have something, believe me,00:37:16.575 –> 00:37:18.315
you will know how they’re engaged.00:37:18.495 –> 00:37:19.915
And you’ll be surprised, you’ll sort00:37:19.915 –> 00:37:21.315
of learn something from your writing00:37:21.375 –> 00:37:25.115
or from your storytelling is by how engaged they are.00:37:25.855 –> 00:37:28.115
So you’ll go, oh, okay, this is something interesting.00:37:28.135 –> 00:37:30.915
And that’s how you’ll see you.00:37:30.935 –> 00:37:33.595
Can you keep writing, keep writing, keep writing.00:37:33.775 –> 00:37:35.035
And the more they’re engaged,00:37:35.055 –> 00:37:37.635
and the more you get feedback, the more you’ll be able00:37:37.635 –> 00:37:38.675
to grow your own story.00:37:39.265 –> 00:37:41.755
Yeah. You know, I, I, two things occur00:37:41.755 –> 00:37:43.075
to me off what Gabe just said.00:37:43.135 –> 00:37:44.995
You know, famous, I don’t know if you guys know this story.00:37:45.425 –> 00:37:47.235
Will and Grace, the guys who wrote Will00:37:47.235 –> 00:37:49.035
and Grace originally wrote, uh,00:37:49.315 –> 00:37:51.955
a pilot about an apartment building with three couples00:37:52.255 –> 00:37:55.035
who were each having complicated relationships.00:37:55.335 –> 00:37:58.315
And Warren Littlefield, who was the head of NBC, read it00:37:58.315 –> 00:38:01.635
and said, I’m only interested in this one, couple will00:38:01.635 –> 00:38:04.235
and Grace, the other two, I feel like I’ve seen before.00:38:04.235 –> 00:38:07.315
They’re just romantic comedy stories. I’ve never seen this.00:38:08.235 –> 00:38:10.375
So Max and David threw out the other two couples00:38:10.375 –> 00:38:12.295
and went back and rewrote it as Will and Grace.00:38:13.085 –> 00:38:15.135
That kind of feedback is immensely valuable.00:38:15.455 –> 00:38:17.175
I got feedback on a pilot I wrote once,00:38:17.395 –> 00:38:20.175
and I had labored so hard over this outline,00:38:20.195 –> 00:38:21.415
and it was five acts,00:38:21.835 –> 00:38:24.095
and I turned the pilot, the, the outline into Showtime.00:38:24.755 –> 00:38:28.335
And, uh, David Nevins, who was running Showtime at the time,00:38:28.335 –> 00:38:29.975
said, you don’t need act three.00:38:30.235 –> 00:38:32.535
And I was like, what? Are you kidding?00:38:32.535 –> 00:38:33.935
That’s the, and the more I talked,00:38:33.935 –> 00:38:35.205
the more I realized he was right.00:38:35.475 –> 00:38:38.665
Yeah. That it was a ax story, not a five act story.00:38:39.205 –> 00:38:42.265
It is, uh, we sometimes get so close to our material00:38:43.095 –> 00:38:44.985
that we don’t understand that00:38:45.825 –> 00:38:46.945
audiences are very sophisticated.00:38:46.945 –> 00:38:50.425
They can jump from A to C without necessarily seeing B for,00:38:50.525 –> 00:38:52.065
and also that the parts of the story00:38:52.065 –> 00:38:55.825
that we find most interesting, we might bury in tinsel00:38:56.205 –> 00:38:57.585
or candy floss00:38:57.585 –> 00:39:00.225
and not understand what the jewel of the story really is.00:39:01.135 –> 00:39:03.665
Yeah. So meaningful feedback, Gabe, is Right.00:39:05.445 –> 00:39:07.825
So I guess that brings the corollary question.00:39:08.385 –> 00:39:11.385
I mean, your friends are obviously very encouraging.00:39:11.485 –> 00:39:13.225
So who do you go to for feedback?00:39:14.645 –> 00:39:17.065
Oh, who do we go? Well, I could go to Jeff,00:39:17.505 –> 00:39:18.745
I go to Jeff Juda.00:39:19.605 –> 00:39:21.905
Um, I go to family members.00:39:22.585 –> 00:39:26.665
I go to kids if it’s a kid’s story to see if it’s engaging.00:39:27.465 –> 00:39:30.505
I really go to surrounding, you know, people in my life00:39:30.605 –> 00:39:31.905
and just see how that is.00:39:32.085 –> 00:39:36.795
And I think once it’s sort of I see something,00:39:36.795 –> 00:39:39.275
there’s something they’re hooking into, uh,00:39:39.665 –> 00:39:41.235
it’s easier for me to move forward.00:39:42.775 –> 00:39:45.545
Yeah. You know, when I started out in, you know,00:39:45.545 –> 00:39:47.385
when I was a baby baby and moved to Los Angeles00:39:47.685 –> 00:39:50.065
and was trying to kind of like, make connections00:39:50.125 –> 00:39:51.385
and so forth, I assumed00:39:51.385 –> 00:39:54.025
that the most valuable connections would be with people four00:39:54.025 –> 00:39:55.745
or five echelons above me.00:39:56.525 –> 00:39:59.105
Uh, but it turned out that my peers were more valuable.00:39:59.855 –> 00:40:01.865
Like, the best thing you can do is show your writing00:40:01.885 –> 00:40:03.545
to somebody who you think is at least two,00:40:03.545 –> 00:40:06.345
but two, you know, who is at least 200% better than you00:40:08.735 –> 00:40:10.625
Show it to your harshest critic, you know?00:40:10.635 –> 00:40:12.065
Right. And see what they come back with.00:40:12.165 –> 00:40:15.545
Or, you know, develop a group of writers that, you know,00:40:15.885 –> 00:40:18.865
my friend Sarah, who has become quite a successful show00:40:18.865 –> 00:40:21.225
creator, you know, she has the same group00:40:21.225 –> 00:40:23.985
of like eight writers who meet at Starbucks in Westwood.00:40:24.055 –> 00:40:25.225
They’re still doing it.00:40:25.605 –> 00:40:28.465
And this group of five have been together since they were 2200:40:28.465 –> 00:40:30.545
years old, like giving each other00:40:30.545 –> 00:40:32.145
honest feedback on their stuff.00:40:32.685 –> 00:40:33.945
And Sarah’s now in a position00:40:33.945 –> 00:40:35.265
where she gets shows on the air.00:40:35.435 –> 00:40:37.785
She’s written a novel, she’s doing really, really well,00:40:38.125 –> 00:40:40.665
but she still counts on those half dozen people00:40:40.665 –> 00:40:44.145
that she met when she was 22 to give her honest feedback.00:40:44.215 –> 00:40:46.025
It’s among the most valuable things00:40:46.305 –> 00:40:48.105
that you can nurture is a group00:40:48.105 –> 00:40:50.305
of smart friends who you trust.00:40:50.805 –> 00:40:52.985
And they can be like, you know, writing partner,00:40:53.085 –> 00:40:56.065
family member kid can be any number of things,00:40:56.125 –> 00:40:57.345
but like, people who you trust00:40:57.345 –> 00:40:58.865
to give you honest feedback on your stuff00:40:58.865 –> 00:40:59.865
and not just shine you on.00:41:01.505 –> 00:41:03.935
Great. Um, so thank you.00:41:04.115 –> 00:41:07.335
We, we probably have time for one more question for Gabe00:41:07.995 –> 00:41:10.775
and Jeff, but I also wanna make time00:41:10.795 –> 00:41:12.175
for questions about the program.00:41:12.595 –> 00:41:14.815
So I’m just gonna throw it out there in case00:41:14.995 –> 00:41:17.175
and, you know, if anybody has questions about either.00:41:18.235 –> 00:41:21.815
Um, otherwise I’m gonna jump back in with more questions00:41:21.815 –> 00:41:23.975
because I always have more questions for these two.00:41:25.415 –> 00:41:26.595
Any questions about the program?00:41:26.935 –> 00:41:29.895
Any questions for Jeff or Gabe?00:41:31.315 –> 00:41:33.605
Uh, you can put it in the chat if you don’t feel00:41:33.605 –> 00:41:34.725
like coming on camera.00:41:37.125 –> 00:41:39.305
Did you just give your overview of the program?00:41:39.655 –> 00:41:40.665
I’ve read what’s online,00:41:40.765 –> 00:41:42.705
but there’s gotta be more behind it than00:41:43.485 –> 00:41:44.505
one page on a screen.00:41:45.575 –> 00:41:49.465
Yeah, definitely. So when we first,00:41:50.215 –> 00:41:53.705
when we first started to think about why USC wanted00:41:53.705 –> 00:41:55.785
to do a program like this, I think, um, just,00:41:55.815 –> 00:41:57.025
just a little bit about myself.00:41:57.045 –> 00:42:00.025
So I came to US C3 just over three years ago,00:42:00.245 –> 00:42:02.065
and I, I always say that, um,00:42:02.065 –> 00:42:04.905
what comes my way are the weird things, the things00:42:04.905 –> 00:42:07.105
that don’t really necessarily fit a degree program,00:42:07.365 –> 00:42:10.025
the things that don’t necessarily, um, have,00:42:10.025 –> 00:42:11.065
they’re not credit bearing.00:42:11.725 –> 00:42:13.825
So that can mean things like career skills00:42:14.125 –> 00:42:16.865
or it can mean things like a pre-college program, anything00:42:16.865 –> 00:42:19.145
that really kind of constitutes lifelong learning.00:42:19.845 –> 00:42:22.145
And the thing that appealed to me immediately when,00:42:22.145 –> 00:42:24.185
when we first started looking into these programs,00:42:24.185 –> 00:42:27.585
which a lot of universities have now, was, was the idea00:42:27.895 –> 00:42:29.465
that there were so many people00:42:29.655 –> 00:42:32.185
that have reached a point in their leadership where,00:42:32.445 –> 00:42:33.905
you know, they’re, they’re happy in their jobs00:42:34.045 –> 00:42:35.745
or, you know, maybe they just got, you know,00:42:35.745 –> 00:42:36.905
they were very good at their jobs,00:42:36.905 –> 00:42:38.305
they’ve gotten pretty far along,00:42:38.765 –> 00:42:41.265
but they got to the point where, you know, people have come00:42:41.265 –> 00:42:42.625
to a point now where it’s like, okay,00:42:42.925 –> 00:42:44.185
I’m not really going to retire.00:42:44.625 –> 00:42:46.625
I can’t see myself moving to Florida00:42:46.725 –> 00:42:49.345
and playing golf, probably gonna live 30 more years.00:42:49.845 –> 00:42:52.665
So there are these transitional moments of, okay, well,00:42:52.665 –> 00:42:54.985
how do I think I’m gonna spend the next part of my career?00:42:55.495 –> 00:42:57.185
What do I actually wanna cultivate00:42:57.185 –> 00:42:58.545
and what do I wanna put in the world00:42:58.765 –> 00:43:00.705
and how do I, how do I make that meaningful?00:43:01.245 –> 00:43:03.985
So that’s the part of it that I think really fit00:43:04.095 –> 00:43:07.265
with both the USC vision for what it thinks, you know,00:43:07.265 –> 00:43:08.825
how it, how it sees lifelong learning,00:43:08.885 –> 00:43:11.905
but why I was personally really drawn to this, this concept,00:43:12.845 –> 00:43:15.585
but then, you know, we started looking at the programs as00:43:15.585 –> 00:43:16.585
that are out there now.00:43:16.645 –> 00:43:18.345
And what we wanted uscs program00:43:18.485 –> 00:43:19.945
to be was a couple of things.00:43:20.155 –> 00:43:22.625
First of all, really played to the strengths of USC00:43:22.685 –> 00:43:24.745
and I, um, you know,00:43:24.825 –> 00:43:26.785
I think storytelling is a big piece of that.00:43:26.945 –> 00:43:29.545
I also come from a creative background00:43:29.605 –> 00:43:31.105
and a creative leadership background,00:43:31.245 –> 00:43:34.345
and so I know, I feel like I know the importance of that.00:43:34.365 –> 00:43:37.665
But then we also wanted to tap into taking people out00:43:37.665 –> 00:43:39.785
of their day to day, most of the time,00:43:40.045 –> 00:43:41.105
you know, when, when we’re together.00:43:41.205 –> 00:43:43.825
And then, you know, give people the flexibility to be able00:43:44.025 –> 00:43:46.625
to do this program year round without having to commit00:43:46.625 –> 00:43:47.945
to moving somewhere for a year.00:43:48.245 –> 00:43:50.225
So we kind of put all the constructs together00:43:50.285 –> 00:43:52.985
and the things that are important to USC, you know, outside00:43:52.985 –> 00:43:56.345
of the story, storytelling, sustainability, the idea00:43:56.485 –> 00:43:58.985
of social good, being able to take advantage of the fact00:43:58.985 –> 00:44:00.665
that we have these, these policy00:44:00.805 –> 00:44:04.545
and social leaders in, um, in DC in a new campus there,00:44:05.005 –> 00:44:06.185
as well as health and wellness00:44:06.245 –> 00:44:08.865
and what longevity looks like for the rest of, you know,00:44:08.925 –> 00:44:10.145
for, for both for yourself00:44:10.145 –> 00:44:11.945
or any initiatives that you’re putting in the world00:44:12.245 –> 00:44:13.545
or the kinds of things we wanted00:44:13.545 –> 00:44:15.265
to bring together into one experience.00:44:15.885 –> 00:44:17.065
The other key thing00:44:17.065 –> 00:44:20.265
that we hope people will take away from this is you get00:44:20.265 –> 00:44:22.905
to a place in your leadership where it’s kind of lonely.00:44:23.425 –> 00:44:25.585
I mean, that lonely at the top thing isn’t, isn’t,00:44:25.605 –> 00:44:27.105
uh, isn’t fake.00:44:27.365 –> 00:44:29.305
And I think, you know, get, finding friends,00:44:29.305 –> 00:44:30.345
finding colleagues,00:44:30.345 –> 00:44:32.605
finding new networks at a certain point in your00:44:32.605 –> 00:44:33.685
life gets challenging.00:44:34.145 –> 00:44:36.085
And that idea that you’ve kind of grown up00:44:36.085 –> 00:44:39.415
with your network, you know, to some extent it’s true,00:44:39.475 –> 00:44:41.215
but then also people have peeled off00:44:41.275 –> 00:44:43.455
and, you know, finding a new network00:44:43.565 –> 00:44:46.135
that actually sustains you for the rest of your life,00:44:46.435 –> 00:44:47.815
you know, just feels really important.00:44:47.995 –> 00:44:49.575
So that, those were kind of some00:44:49.575 –> 00:44:50.855
of the motivations behind it.00:44:55.725 –> 00:44:57.705
Any other questions about it?00:44:57.715 –> 00:45:01.505
About the program itself or how we, how we expect to run it00:45:01.565 –> 00:45:03.945
or, um, the structure, anything like that?00:45:05.005 –> 00:45:07.425
If not, I might just ask Ali to jump on00:45:07.425 –> 00:45:09.625
and just give a quick overview of how we’re thinking00:45:10.275 –> 00:45:11.305
about the structure.00:45:12.525 –> 00:45:13.705
Um, I see one question.00:45:13.845 –> 00:45:16.865
How many, in the first first cohort, we’re going to limit it00:45:16.865 –> 00:45:20.145
to 25 people for the first, uh, cohort, we want it00:45:20.145 –> 00:45:21.705
to be a pretty intimate experience,00:45:21.925 –> 00:45:24.785
and we wanna make sure that, um, you know,00:45:24.785 –> 00:45:26.345
everybody has a chance to really get00:45:26.345 –> 00:45:27.865
to know the other people that they’re working with.00:45:28.315 –> 00:45:32.265
We’re also going to break that group of 25 into groups00:45:32.325 –> 00:45:35.065
of eight by each section so that people can get00:45:35.065 –> 00:45:36.585
to know each other even a little bit better.00:45:37.125 –> 00:45:40.305
Um, and then we’ll rotate those and we’ll have coaches and,00:45:40.525 –> 00:45:43.225
and different advisors associated with each of those,00:45:43.525 –> 00:45:45.185
but then we’ll also have the opportunity00:45:45.245 –> 00:45:48.265
to bring the full 25 together every other week as well.00:45:53.245 –> 00:45:55.615
Yeah. So, um, our, our plan is, is00:45:55.615 –> 00:45:57.855
that we’re gonna have four in-person sections,00:45:57.995 –> 00:46:00.575
and those are gonna be linked between online sessions.00:46:01.115 –> 00:46:04.615
So those session, those in-person sections will be one week00:46:04.615 –> 00:46:05.935
each, and there’ll be four of those,00:46:06.275 –> 00:46:09.095
and then online will be six or eight weeks in between00:46:12.945 –> 00:46:15.405
Any other, any other questions about the program?00:46:15.405 –> 00:46:17.085
Otherwise, I’m gonna go back to the,00:46:17.225 –> 00:46:18.605
the far more interesting, Gabe00:46:18.605 –> 00:46:20.365
and Jeff for, for the last one00:46:20.365 –> 00:46:22.845
or two, uh, questions of our time together today.00:46:24.025 –> 00:46:27.405
So having heard what I just said about the program,00:46:27.825 –> 00:46:30.005
and you know, Gabe, especially like thinking about,00:46:30.425 –> 00:46:33.525
you know, your goals when someone comes in and,00:46:33.705 –> 00:46:36.485
and we’re asking people to think about their own narrative00:46:36.545 –> 00:46:37.965
and to tell their own story.00:46:38.965 –> 00:46:40.085
H how do you think about that?00:46:40.225 –> 00:46:42.285
How do you think about whether it’s telling your own story00:46:42.285 –> 00:46:45.125
the same for you, Jeff, how do you think about approaching00:46:45.125 –> 00:46:46.205
that and,00:46:46.265 –> 00:46:48.565
and what are some of the tools that somebody might use00:46:48.785 –> 00:46:51.605
to find their story or to find their narrative?00:46:52.065 –> 00:46:54.045
Um, again, um, and,00:46:54.105 –> 00:46:56.325
and you know, how, like what are some techniques00:46:56.325 –> 00:46:59.005
that we could possibly use in that session?00:46:59.805 –> 00:47:01.965
I think it’s just blank. I, I like, you know, like I said00:47:01.965 –> 00:47:04.965
before, I think it’s just blanking things out of your head,00:47:05.105 –> 00:47:07.845
you know, because it’s all the self-doubt00:47:08.065 –> 00:47:10.525
and it’s all the, you know, oh, this person,00:47:10.735 –> 00:47:13.165
maybe it’s not right for this, or it’s not right for that.00:47:13.245 –> 00:47:15.565
I think it’s just getting to your own space00:47:16.025 –> 00:47:17.405
and again, brainstorming00:47:17.545 –> 00:47:21.245
and just writing everything down from your life.00:47:21.265 –> 00:47:24.205
And you’ll be surprised if you go, okay, when I was 10,00:47:24.805 –> 00:47:25.965
I remember this happened00:47:26.385 –> 00:47:28.325
and I’m only gonna focus on that piece.00:47:29.425 –> 00:47:31.645
And then you start thinking of more and more00:47:31.645 –> 00:47:34.085
and more details to that, and it gets more00:47:34.085 –> 00:47:35.245
and more and more interesting.00:47:35.345 –> 00:47:38.445
So I think it’s, it’s really about, you know,00:47:38.885 –> 00:47:39.885
clearing your mind00:47:40.345 –> 00:47:45.125
and, you know, using those pieces to just sort of delve into00:47:46.315 –> 00:47:47.605
your life in detail.00:47:47.865 –> 00:47:51.605
And I, I think stories come from that very naturally.00:47:54.075 –> 00:47:57.085
Yeah. I think it is about zeroing in on the story00:47:57.085 –> 00:48:01.365
that you are uniquely qualified to tell some experience00:48:01.365 –> 00:48:03.645
that you’ve had something in your upbringing,00:48:04.035 –> 00:48:05.685
something in your identity,00:48:05.955 –> 00:48:08.005
something in a relationship you’ve had,00:48:08.225 –> 00:48:09.765
or a crazy job you had00:48:09.765 –> 00:48:11.805
or something like that no one else can talk about00:48:11.805 –> 00:48:14.085
with the authority and, uh,00:48:14.925 –> 00:48:16.325
personal perspective that you have.00:48:16.905 –> 00:48:20.045
And that’s always a fantastic starting point for anything00:48:20.155 –> 00:48:22.685
because, you know, and just to circle back to what Gabe00:48:22.685 –> 00:48:25.325
and I were talking about, about, you know, Joey Soay,00:48:25.325 –> 00:48:29.725
like the most elusive thing when we are reading writers00:48:29.865 –> 00:48:31.805
for staffing, the hardest thing is to find someone00:48:31.805 –> 00:48:34.245
with a unique and idiosyncratic point of view.00:48:35.125 –> 00:48:38.765
I hate to say this, anyone can tell a coherent story.00:48:39.385 –> 00:48:41.885
Anyone, people have an instinctual understanding00:48:41.885 –> 00:48:43.645
that stories have a beginning, middle, and end.00:48:44.305 –> 00:48:47.725
What’s much, much harder is to infuse that beginning,00:48:47.725 –> 00:48:51.885
middle, and end with something that feels spicy, surprising,00:48:52.275 –> 00:48:55.965
sexy, relevant, shocking, transgressive,00:48:56.585 –> 00:48:58.125
uh, unseen.00:48:58.825 –> 00:49:01.205
Uh, that’s what we look for more than anything else.00:49:01.265 –> 00:49:02.525
And so I always enc include,00:49:02.925 –> 00:49:05.565
I always encourage young writers to look inward00:49:05.865 –> 00:49:06.965
and ask yourself like,00:49:06.965 –> 00:49:08.645
what is it you have that nobody else has?00:49:09.145 –> 00:49:11.085
What’s the thing you’ve done, no one else has done?00:49:11.665 –> 00:49:12.725
You know, are you a veteran?00:49:13.265 –> 00:49:17.125
Are you the, the 11th son in a, you know, in a, a family00:49:17.145 –> 00:49:19.005
of 11, you know, in a family of 11?00:49:19.005 –> 00:49:21.405
Like, you have something that is uniquely you,00:49:22.425 –> 00:49:25.365
and that could be the genesis for a story or a series00:49:25.385 –> 00:49:26.445
or a movie or something.00:49:27.525 –> 00:49:30.055
Yeah, no, I think that, I think that’s great.00:49:30.055 –> 00:49:32.735
I’ve also heard, you know, I’ve heard people say, you know,00:49:32.835 –> 00:49:35.295
try introducing yourself without saying what you do.00:49:35.755 –> 00:49:37.215
And of course, nobody does that, right?00:49:37.245 –> 00:49:39.335
Like, it’s, it’s so interesting to think about00:49:39.365 –> 00:49:40.495
what you would actually say.00:49:41.115 –> 00:49:43.415
Um, I do wanna clarify just, you know,00:49:43.505 –> 00:49:44.695
there was a question in the q00:49:44.695 –> 00:49:47.815
and a, um, Anthony, this isn’t, we’re not actually going00:49:47.875 –> 00:49:49.135
to do dramatic writing,00:49:49.235 –> 00:49:50.775
and we’re not gonna do technical writing00:49:50.835 –> 00:49:52.215
or literary writing at all.00:49:52.845 –> 00:49:54.775
It’s really more, as you know,00:49:54.775 –> 00:49:56.375
whether you have an idea coming in00:49:56.435 –> 00:49:58.335
or whether that’s gonna be something that you hope00:49:58.335 –> 00:50:00.215
to develop during the course of the program.00:50:00.885 –> 00:50:03.895
It’s really more making sure that that idea that you have00:50:03.955 –> 00:50:05.415
or that, you know, that plan00:50:05.435 –> 00:50:07.255
for the future is coming from a place00:50:07.835 –> 00:50:09.295
of your authentic self.00:50:09.715 –> 00:50:12.695
And in order to do that, we wanna help find that, you know,00:50:12.695 –> 00:50:14.175
we wanna find that voice so00:50:14.175 –> 00:50:15.895
that you’re not just choosing from where you are,00:50:16.075 –> 00:50:19.735
but from where you would like to be or where you hope to be.00:50:20.275 –> 00:50:23.055
Um, and to do that, we’ll use the techniques00:50:23.115 –> 00:50:25.735
and some of the, um, you know, the storytelling techniques00:50:25.735 –> 00:50:27.605
that, you know, we’ve been talking about today.00:50:27.905 –> 00:50:30.365
But the goal of it is really more to get to the core00:50:30.465 –> 00:50:31.885
and the heart of, of00:50:31.915 –> 00:50:35.365
what you actually wanna wanna be doing, um, in the future.00:50:37.495 –> 00:50:40.195
Um, Nomi, I think I saw that you had your hand up.00:50:40.195 –> 00:50:41.195
Did you wanna ask a question?00:50:42.875 –> 00:50:44.575
Uh, well, yes, Tara. I did.00:50:44.675 –> 00:50:46.095
And I think you’ve answered it.00:50:46.395 –> 00:50:50.975
Um, the way I, um, understood it was that, um,00:50:51.835 –> 00:50:56.205
yes, um, we would work through this process00:50:57.105 –> 00:50:59.125
to understand our own narrative00:50:59.465 –> 00:51:03.485
and in so doing, um, create00:51:03.865 –> 00:51:06.565
or understand where we want to be.00:51:07.225 –> 00:51:08.325
Um, so,00:51:08.385 –> 00:51:10.845
so you’ve really answered my question. Thank you very much.00:51:11.845 –> 00:51:15.475
Great. Great. I’m, I’m, I’m glad. Um, all right.00:51:15.695 –> 00:51:16.955
Any other questions?00:51:17.135 –> 00:51:21.635
We probably have time for one more, one00:51:21.635 –> 00:51:24.275
or two more about the program, um, program and00:51:25.095 –> 00:51:26.755
or one, one probably00:51:27.695 –> 00:51:30.035
really good juicy question for Jeff or Gabe.00:51:32.125 –> 00:51:36.755
Any, any takers. Okay.00:51:36.785 –> 00:51:37.995
Then I’m gonna ask one more.00:51:42.345 –> 00:51:46.035
Well, I’m, I have two, I I’m just gonna ask this one00:51:46.035 –> 00:51:47.155
because it got one.00:51:47.155 –> 00:51:49.035
Alright. I know I’m only allowed one.00:51:49.455 –> 00:51:52.275
Um, are you comfortable talking about anything00:51:52.275 –> 00:51:53.595
that you’re working on right now00:51:54.665 –> 00:51:57.355
that would give us just like a little sneak peek into,00:51:57.775 –> 00:51:59.915
you know, into something that you’re doing or working on,00:51:59.915 –> 00:52:02.235
or, or an idea that you’re developing right now that you’re,00:52:02.235 –> 00:52:04.195
you’re currently in process on?00:52:04.975 –> 00:52:07.955
And where are you and how are you feeling about it?00:52:09.155 –> 00:52:11.665
Oh boy. Um, yeah, you go first.00:52:12.175 –> 00:52:15.105
Okay. There, there, there, there are a couple things.00:52:15.365 –> 00:52:19.265
One, one is a, um, a tel them show called Swashbucklers00:52:19.265 –> 00:52:21.585
that we’re doing through Disney, which is more00:52:21.585 –> 00:52:23.705
of a sci-fi action adventure piece.00:52:24.685 –> 00:52:29.385
Um, and we are going out with a few pitches in00:52:30.395 –> 00:52:34.145
about three weeks and companies have come to us with,00:52:34.215 –> 00:52:37.825
with different ideas and, and seeing if we’re interested.00:52:38.005 –> 00:52:39.625
So we are just narrowing those down.00:52:40.415 –> 00:52:43.405
Some are, uh, very fun.00:52:44.185 –> 00:52:47.605
One is about the, um, sports phone,00:52:47.625 –> 00:52:50.005
if anyone remembers in the eighties, there was a, you know,00:52:50.025 –> 00:52:52.565
the way you would get your scores would00:52:52.565 –> 00:52:53.605
be through sports phone.00:52:53.615 –> 00:52:54.885
You’d have to find a payphone00:52:54.905 –> 00:52:56.845
and call for all these people that were betting.00:52:56.845 –> 00:53:00.005
And it’s about that sort of boiler room group of people, uh,00:53:00.035 –> 00:53:02.445
that went on to become, you know, announcers.00:53:02.585 –> 00:53:05.765
But they’re just all sort of struggling New Yorkers00:53:06.485 –> 00:53:07.845
figuring out what they’re gonna do with their lives.00:53:08.895 –> 00:53:10.915
Um, and a few more, we’re just waiting00:53:10.975 –> 00:53:15.975
to hear Jeff.00:53:17.255 –> 00:53:21.635
Oh geez. Well, uh, uh, I have a, yeah, you know, this,00:53:23.485 –> 00:53:25.365
let’s never forget we’re the story story.00:53:25.865 –> 00:53:28.925
Uh, I have another in a series of,00:53:29.065 –> 00:53:31.925
of like first person essays that I’ve been working on.00:53:32.125 –> 00:53:35.245
’cause I never write about myself, so I’m trying to kind of00:53:35.965 –> 00:53:37.165
tack in a different direction.00:53:37.305 –> 00:53:39.725
I’m writing prose for the first time, uh,00:53:39.725 –> 00:53:41.165
which is kind of interesting.00:53:41.165 –> 00:53:43.445
And then, uh, my girlfriend00:53:43.445 –> 00:53:45.885
and I have a romantic comedy that we’re incubating.00:53:46.635 –> 00:53:49.445
Love that, uh, because we need more romantic comedies.00:53:49.815 –> 00:53:53.485
Right. Uh, so, and then of course, you know, Gabe00:53:53.485 –> 00:53:57.205
and I have a smash hit podcast, which, uh, is, you know,00:53:58.005 –> 00:53:59.425
has taken the world by storm.00:53:59.725 –> 00:54:02.265
And so the care feeding of that continues00:54:02.265 –> 00:54:03.265
to be extremely important.00:54:03.495 –> 00:54:06.505
Alright, well maybe, maybe somebody could drop the link in00:54:06.505 –> 00:54:08.625
the chat just in case anybody wants00:54:08.625 –> 00:54:09.985
to check out your podcast.00:54:10.525 –> 00:54:14.065
All right. You’re gonna get a little more, um, it’s00:54:14.145 –> 00:54:15.945
I dream of cameras. Wherever you get your podcast.00:54:16.405 –> 00:54:18.065
That’s right. You it. Yes.00:54:18.085 –> 00:54:21.145
We have the world’s greatest name. No one had taken it.00:54:21.685 –> 00:54:25.745
So if you Google I dream of cameras. Uh, that’s us.00:54:26.555 –> 00:54:29.455
All right. Well, and we have a perfect closing question,00:54:29.945 –> 00:54:33.135
which is what we hope for the participants of the program00:54:33.315 –> 00:54:35.175
to gain after completion of this.00:54:36.215 –> 00:54:39.815
I think, I think what would make us the happiest, um, and,00:54:39.835 –> 00:54:41.335
and first of all, I should say this00:54:41.335 –> 00:54:42.495
first, this is our first cohort.00:54:42.755 –> 00:54:44.575
So we are really looking for a group of people00:54:44.575 –> 00:54:46.895
that are gonna be willing to co-create this with us.00:54:47.155 –> 00:54:49.295
People that are really willing to be adventurous.00:54:49.515 –> 00:54:51.695
Um, we’re gonna go to some adventurous places.00:54:52.135 –> 00:54:54.335
The, uh, the Wrigley Center in, in, um,00:54:54.875 –> 00:54:59.735
in Catalina is definitely more, um, camp David than,00:54:59.995 –> 00:55:01.855
um, you know, resort00:55:02.475 –> 00:55:06.095
and, uh, so, you know, plenty of, plenty of opportunity to,00:55:06.235 –> 00:55:07.695
to get out of your comfort zone.00:55:07.895 –> 00:55:09.855
I think what I would hope for people is00:55:09.855 –> 00:55:12.935
that they take away a great group of people into the future00:55:13.035 –> 00:55:15.455
as friends and, and, uh, colleagues00:55:16.475 –> 00:55:19.575
and, um, you know, like people, new people00:55:19.575 –> 00:55:21.815
that they trust almost like they’re, you know, they,00:55:21.865 –> 00:55:23.935
their new board of directors for life.00:55:24.475 –> 00:55:27.415
Um, and I hope that a good number of people take away00:55:27.765 –> 00:55:30.175
what they wanna, what they wanna do in their next steps.00:55:30.195 –> 00:55:31.775
And that we’ve been able to facilitate that.00:55:31.775 –> 00:55:34.735
We’ve been able to make introductions, we’ve been able00:55:34.875 –> 00:55:36.575
to bring people together that,00:55:36.575 –> 00:55:38.135
that can help make those ideas happen.00:55:38.435 –> 00:55:39.815
So those would be, um,00:55:39.815 –> 00:55:42.015
pretty extraordinary if we were able to do that.00:55:44.835 –> 00:55:47.175
Um, and I think with two minutes left,00:55:48.885 –> 00:55:50.775
I’ll just thank everybody for being a part of this.00:55:50.875 –> 00:55:52.055
Uh, I’ve dropped, you know,00:55:52.135 –> 00:55:54.415
I see Sarah has dropped information in the chat00:55:54.415 –> 00:55:55.495
about how to reach us.00:55:56.295 –> 00:55:58.135
I have dropped information in there00:55:58.205 –> 00:55:59.695
with my personal email address.00:55:59.695 –> 00:56:01.255
Please feel free to reach out anytime.00:56:01.655 –> 00:56:05.135
Applications are open on March 1st, tomorrow,00:56:05.515 –> 00:56:06.775
uh, for the next two months.00:56:07.075 –> 00:56:09.735
Um, we had a first round of early applications,00:56:09.735 –> 00:56:12.095
but this is where we imagine, uh, we’ll make the bulk00:56:12.095 –> 00:56:13.935
of our decisions and we really hope00:56:13.935 –> 00:56:15.535
that you’ll apply and join us.00:56:17.875 –> 00:56:18.875
So thank you.00:56:19.725 –> 00:56:21.155
Thank you everyone. Thank you so much.00:56:21.495 –> 00:56:24.845
Thanks, y’all. Thank you. Appreciate it.00:56:27.455 –> 00:56:30.725
Thank you. Thank you. Big, big thanks to Gabe00:56:30.865 –> 00:56:32.085
and Jeff, obviously.00:56:32.905 –> 00:56:35.765
All right. Thanks for being here. We appreciate you so much.00:56:36.545 –> 00:56:40.325
All right. It was a delight. Thanks, Jeff.00:56:41.305 –> 00:56:44.015
All right. See you later. Thank you.